Free Shipping on ALL Products
camera reviewsbest cameraslens reviewsphotography tipscamera forumvideo toursphotography bookssupport me
It is currently Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:27 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Shutter? What for??
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:37 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:08 pm
Posts: 7955
Location: Germany
Why is it that a DSLR needs a shutter and a P&S doesn't?
The new Canon quiet-mode seems to indicate that a shutter is not 100% necessary.

_________________
Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses


Last edited by Thomas on Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 9975
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
I think it's to do with the kind of sensors each camera uses. I believe that prior to Live View and the latest generations, DSLR sensors needed a physical shutter to precisely control the amount of light hitting them - and as Canon's silent shoot implementation shows, there's still a physical process in there.

Whereas P&S sensors could be effectively 'switched on and off' to deliver the required exposure time, while also being able to deliver a live video feed for composition.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:20 am 
But Gordon

I think Thomas may have a point, from what i see, P&S are trying to mimic the SLR or DSLR by adding in the 'shutter' sound though there is none.
The shutter sound was and is considered 'necessary'
I remembered the earlier P&S does not produced any sound and was not well received and later the sound of the 'shutter' was added.

Same for the camera-phone, they all have 'shutter' sound now.

Perhaps in the near-future the shutter will be deemed 'irrelevant' or not required :?:


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:35 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 9975
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
Ah well that's two different questions!

I assume Thomas was asking why a DSLR technically needed a physical shutter, but that's also a great point about P&S and phone manufacturers including a shutter sound!

I think it's a familiar sound which people know and recognise, and it also serves to tell you the photo's been taken. It would be funny though if a physical shutter is eventually unneccessary on future DSLRs and they also play back a recording!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:15 am 
Gordon Laing wrote:

Whereas P&S sensors could be effectively 'switched on and off' to deliver the required exposure time, while also being able to deliver a live video feed for composition.


Is this why P&S's usually have a longer lag time in waiting for the exposure to be recorded compared to a DSLR?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:19 am 
How else would you get an optical viewfinder without the shutter :)


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:15 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:08 pm
Posts: 7955
Location: Germany
Hi antman! I'm not talking about the mirror, but the extra shutter behind the mirror.
And P&S make nice 30fps movies too, so I really, really don't get the function of the shutter:
- it's loud
- it's prone to malfunction/wear&tear
- it increases the costs
So why not put away with it?

_________________
Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:33 pm 
I wasn't awear there was anything behind the mirror / shutter mechanism? I thought the mirror fliped up thus exposing the sensor?

Kind of like this? Or am I rusty on my SLR workings?

Image


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:24 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:08 pm
Posts: 7955
Location: Germany
Yup, I was astonished as you, when I understood that there is a real shutter just like in film-SLRs in front of the sensor. You can see it in some of the Nikon D3/00 detail shots, just don't have a link handy...

_________________
Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:00 pm 
I am lost as well Antman..shocked :shock:
Thought the shutter is just in front of the sensor which is after the mirror.
If what the pic shows is true then there is 'no shutter' anymore :!:

DavidL


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:15 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:08 pm
Posts: 7955
Location: Germany
The pic above is definitely wrong with regard to most current DSLRs. (btw. if you google "nikon d300 shutter.jpg", you'll find a pic of the shutter). But perhaps the schematic was simplifying with respect to sensor+shutter, as it was focussing - err - on the focussing system...

For the D300 I can quote: "shutter: Electronically-controlled vertical-travel focal plane shutter" and for the D3 they talk of "Nikon's Self-diagnostic shutter system, tested to 300,000 cycles, is a clear indication of advanced engineering and durable construction".

_________________
Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:32 am 
Maybe this link

Shutter


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:43 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 9975
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
Hi Guys, all current DSLRs have physical shutters in front of the sensors in exactly the same way as older 35mm models had shutters in front of the film itself. The mirror is the part of the optical SLR design which redirects light from the lens through the viewfinder.

The mirror can't flip up and back again quickly enough or have its timings adjusted accurately to act as a shutter though. This explains why there's a need for a physical shutter on a film camera. But the question is why you can't flip the mirror up, then just switch the sensor on and off to eliminate the need for a shutter in a DSLR - and its noise.

I think it's due to the way DSLR sensors are designed, although this could change in the future...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

All words, images, videos and layout, copyright 2005-2012 Gordon Laing. May not be used without permission.
/ How we test / Best Cameras / Advertising / Camera reviews / Supporting Camera Labs

Webdesign by Alphabase IT
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group