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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:10 am 
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Hello everyone, this is the thread for any comments or questions concerning December's Assignment.

Gordon


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:56 am 
Collages. post processing, animated gifs etc etc. Won't be long before the camera is optional. :?

Seems that somebody who is more into traditional photography(and I don't mean film) and isn't a wizard around the keyboard and graphics packages will be somewhat at a dis-advantage.

Oh well - always up for a challenge. :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:14 am 
Well there has always been that gap, previously it was down to who had a darkroom or access to one, then the gap was widened further to who could actually do anything in the darkroom D&B, multiple negs and other techniques, then ofc there were just normal every day photogs who had processing done at a lab.

Nothings really changed IMO other than the way the end result is acheived. I have a Jobo enlarger and developing studio in the loft and achieved some great results with it years ago, I only purchased my digital camera about 12 months ago after a long break from photography but to be perfectly honest I find I put more emphasis on the photography now than I did when I used film, but I think that is because the learning curve has changed and results can be seen and technique adjusted much easier now a days.

To keep on topic, I think this is another good challenge and is open to so many interpretations that the results should be interesting and varied.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:39 am 
I don't want to dwell on it too much cos rules is rules but I did mention that I didn't mean film.

Perhaps 'traditional' was a bad term to pick. For the sake of argument, and admittedly going way over the top, whats next after animated gifs - stop-motion video?

Just can't help but feel that somebody who isn't a guru with umpteen packages is simply at a disadvantage and has to rely on more on their photographic/compositional skills.

Lets not let this get out of hand before people start jumping down my throat.
It's just an observation and not an objection. After all entry is optional.
:)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:16 am 
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Have to agree with Phil, even though I'm proficient in Photoshop. I'd rather this be the place for "traditional" photography, not photoshoping contests. In my opinion we should try to minimize the alteration to our photos. Things like contrast, hue, sharpness seem fine to me but animated GIFs and things like that aren't really focused on photography but on graphic design.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:59 am 
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Hi folks,

Oh dear, I seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest by suggesting that the 2 to 5 images might be combined into an animation. Sorry. :oops:

Mind you, when it comes to voting if there are any such entries I'd still try to base my vote on the quality of the individual images as photographs and the message they conveyed.

From memory we've had a competition with no post-processing at all other than what the camera provided so there has been balance. I know that I'll find this month's assignment quite a challenge, not only in choosing a subject but also in execution and trying to evoke the right feel. Chances are that as animated GIF files (or animated PNG files) don't support fading from one image to another then the 5 image limit means I won't even go down that route but the option is there who are brave enough to try. :twisted:

Bob.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:21 pm 
To be honest the whole "PP" debate just ruffles my feathers a bit, photoshop is something everyone can learn, photography is an art form after all and the process of completing an image should not be limited by what the camera can or cannot capture, by suggesting that post processing should be in any way limited in its entirety is a bit OTT I think. Although I like the zero / minimal processing challenges as well!

The reason I mentioned film was not for any other reason than to suggest that there has always been those that can / will and those that cannot or cannot be bothered to learn. Darkroom skills have been replaced by photoshop skills but there is still that common divide. I am willing to bet that 10 years ago had this site been online there would have been an outcry if anyones challenge entry had been "processed" in a darkroom instead of how it looked on the negative, most likely by someone who did not have the equipment or by someone who could not be bothered to learn to use it.

Animated images however are not really what I would consider photographic art, as photography is really about still images and animation is more about motion captures IMHO but with the inclusion of HD motion capture in modern cameras I wonder how long it will be before dedicated photographic sites become watered down and cater for both topics.

As a final point, take a look at any glossy magazine and you will see post processing in practically every image, if it is good enough for the pro's then I suggest it is good enough for us all ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:37 pm 
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Phil_Lowe wrote:
Collages. post processing, animated gifs etc etc. Won't be long before the camera is optional. :?

Seems that somebody who is more into traditional photography(and I don't mean film) and isn't a wizard around the keyboard and graphics packages will be somewhat at a dis-advantage.

Oh well - always up for a challenge. :shock:



Don't sweat it Phil you got my vote for November :wink:

Keep up the good work

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:40 pm 
Phil_Lowe wrote:
I don't want to dwell on it too much cos rules is rules but I did mention that I didn't mean film.

Perhaps 'traditional' was a bad term to pick. For the sake of argument, and admittedly going way over the top, whats next after animated gifs - stop-motion video?

Just can't help but feel that somebody who isn't a guru with umpteen packages is simply at a disadvantage and has to rely on more on their photographic/compositional skills.

Lets not let this get out of hand before people start jumping down my throat.
It's just an observation and not an objection. After all entry is optional.
:)


As far as I'm concerned, as long as the image resembles the original, and doesn't detract from the original image, then there's no problem. Adding contrast, dodging and burning, cropping are all simple things that IMHO can be done by anyone, albeit to a different degree.

Just as film photographers can use colour and bi colour filters, I don't see the problem with PP to an extent.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:11 pm 
I’m inclined to agree with Phil.

For me, at this relatively early stage, it’s more about good composition and simplicity rather than software skills. Phil’s own submission in November was in my opinion an excellent example and I had no hesitation in casting my vote in his direction.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:26 pm 
I'm not saying that people should not concentrate on good photography, what I am saying is for those wanting a "pure" image by all means submit it, but do not stop the creativity of others because your view is that an image should not be PP'd (not you or anyone in particular :p).

Phils image is excellent don't get me wrong and would be a very worthy winner, and if he wins I look forward to a minimal editing challenge and will without hesitation participate in it, you will not hear me bemoaning the limitations of not being able to edit an image though ;) Instead I will embrace the rules whatever they may be and try and produce the best image I am capable of within those rules.

I am on another site and submitting regularly on there, and every challenge detail is questioned and discussed / argued over down to what would and would not be "a does not meet challenge image", please lets not allow this site become like that. Submit if you like the topic / ruleset, do not submit if you don't like them it's pretty straight forward really.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:11 pm 
I don’t believe that I have suggested any 'stifling of creativity' (sic). I merely agreed with the views expressed by another forum member. As has been pointed out, entry is optional.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:40 pm 
And I don't believe I suggested you had, if you re-read the post I think you'll agree ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:48 pm 
Well, I don't want to keep the discussion going on, but I don't like the idea of PP too. :(
As I see, absolutely nothing proves the person who took the picture is the same that PP it, so, if I get a reasonably good shot and send to a friend that is an Photoshop Expert, I can end up with an award winning image that I didn't do myself.... so it can turn into a group competition instead of an personal one.
Now, please don't get me wrong. I think contrast, saturation, brightness, sharpness adjustments are more than welcome, but when you leave the doors open for some Photoshop Genius to play using whatever he/she likes, I think it can get pretty unfair.
Anyway.. just my $ 0,02... and I am still going to participate even facing the Genius :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:52 pm 
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For me: post processing is a must before anything from my camera is send out there, onto the world wide web. That doesn't mean I don't support some of the arguments against it though.
For my entry, I'll do some basic PP, but since I have no idea how to make myself an animated GIF image, I won't be doing anything like that...

Hmmm, "Change"... what should I do... :?:

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