Camera Labs

I would like to corroborate that view. I had use of both a 40D and a 450D for two days, so I could actually hold both up to my eyes taking turns looking first thru one then the other viewfinder. I was more than prepared to find quite a difference. But whether peeking into bright sunshine or a dimly lit room, I could not for the life of me make out any difference at all.

The 40D is quite a lot heavier - although trying one with the featherweight 18-55mm IS and the other with the 17-85mm IS USM is hardly fair. For the fun of it, I tried them in all combinations: The 40D with the cheaper lens is roughly the same weight as the 450D with the mid-grade lens. With this latter lens the difference between the two cams is almost negligable. I. e. if you plan to upgrade the kit lens anyway, don't be worried about the added 270g of the 40D body. If on the other hand you want rather an inconspicuous set-up for street-shooting, maybe with the 35mm/f2, which you can shlep for hours on end, it's going to make quite a difference.

Like Shonen I dislike the ergonomics of the 40D, although after I sent back the 450D and spent some more days with its larger sibling I did get used to it. The large wheel on the back, which gives you direct access to exposure comp is all good though. The joystick is superfluous, its few functions could easily be delegated to one of the two wheels. Why people are so eager on the tiny top display, when they could have the information on 3 glorious inches on the back escapes me. As it is that display lies barren between shots and I for one would need to put on reading glasses for the top deck.

The 3 custom modes on the dial are a godsent. Imagine you are street-shooting and there's this limo going by rather quick and you want a a shot of the woman in the back-seat. But you were concentrating on children in a playground in broad daylight with tree shadows - that's how you are currently set up. You could at the flick of the wrist change to Auto WB, AF servo, auto AF field plus ISO 800 for a "from the hip shot" that would've been lost had you tried to change all the parameters manually. The 450D doesn't do this. The E-520 is afaik the only entry DSLR to have custom modes.

Hendrik

I bought the 450D within a month actually the kit lens is a bit suitable for me and i have a lot of problems when shooting with the widest angle and it gives me a lot of chromatic abbreviation. Lens hood costs and needs extra effort to go to the shop and ask for having one. Recently, I've seen an adult for about 50+ he uses the 350D which is a bit old, and i ask him wht the lenses he used. The Tamron 18-250mm Di aspherical macro lens!! I was wondering why the lens can do such a wide-until zoom!! I borrowed his lens to have a try. Not bad at all but lacks IS. Sadly, this compromises me that lacks of IS also when holding my camera feels shaky . Unfortunately i am prefering 450D than 40D because it is cheap and the kit lens got an IS which i'd loving it and the of course i hate the shutter sound. It really hates me just like a mechanism lifting the shutter up, a bit noisy comparing the 40D quiet shooting. Grip is definately not suits me becuase my hands does not fitted and im suffering pain while shooting ages.

I decide to buy an 50mm f1.8 but some got ultrasonic but some doesnt have what does it mean?

And i like Tamron 18-250mm but there are some cons and pros but i really like to have a zoom lens having the L-series lens. Im in the budget man!!

Hi lokechungkeat,

May I offer you a warm welcome to the CameraLabs forums.

A possible alternative to the Tamron you mentioned is the newly announced EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS. Too early for any reviews, of course, but it does have IS. Focusing is courtesy of a micro-motor (rather than USM) but nobody will look at your pictures and say "Oh, that was taken with a lens that didn't have USM."

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Very interesting comments.
I was deciding to get either a 40d or 450d and ended up with the 450d and have never looked back. I actually like the menu and button interface of the 450d over the 40d's wheel. I think i am the only one the world that dislikes the wheel. The 40d feels more solid but does weigh more. The image quality is quite similar. ISO performance was also very similar. The only main advantage imo was the 40d shot at a much faster rate. But coming in at almost $500 more, the 450d felt like a bargain. I picked mine up with the kit lens for 699 cdn. I quickly sold the kit lens for $160 and picked up a 17-55 f2.8 IS USM lens for $1100. I would rather have the 450d + 17-55mm rather than the 40d and its 17-85mm any day. Battery life seems to last forever, shots after shots it just wont die. Having the 17-55mm with the hood and a B+W MRC UV filter mounted the camera, it feels very balanced in terms of weight. My next lens will be the 70-200 F2.8 IS USM lens and since this lens is over 2x heavier than the 17-55mm, I will definately buy a battery grip to counter balance the added weight.

The dated 400d was well out of the question especially since it was only a few bucks cheaper. Other cosideration was the D60/D80 from nikon. The Nikon feels likes solid in my hands and felt more comfortable. The main reason why I went Canon was because I've owned previous canon cameras and they were all excellent. My photographer friends all recommended canon. Gordon Laing shoots canon. Nothing more needs to be said

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Canon EOS 450d/XSi, BG-E5 Grip, 4 LP-E5 battery, Canon EF-S 17-55 F2.8 IS USM, B+W 77mm Pro1 MRC UV0 filter, Canon EF-S 10-22mm USM, HOYA 77mm HMC UV(C) Multi-Coated Filter THIN, Canon 580EX II,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31510271@N05/

Hi quanger,

Wow, that's nice kit you've got man. I actually didn't like the 40D's wheel either: I was so used to quickly tapping buttons on my compact, the wheel felt unnatural to me. Also, the 40D was too heavy and bulky for my tastes.

Most people have opposite experiences, but it goes to show the importance of test driving a camera before taking it home.

I was wondering: is the 17-55 worth the money? I mean, its f2.8 constant aperture is great, but doesn't a 50mm f1.4/f1.8 do a better job at indoor photography and portraiture for a fraction of the price? And the 17-55 range is largely covered by the (frankly excellent) IS kitlens.

Also, the 70-200 f2.8 IS a fantastic lens: but isn't it a bit too heavy for the 450D frame? Compared to the f4 IS, I think that only indoor sports/events would require an f2.8, and knowing that, the price hike is quite severe.

But anyway, good luck again with your photography.

Oh - and please some pictures of the 17-55: I'm quite curious.

Hey Shonen,
I will create a Flickr account soon and upload a few shots for you.

For $1100 cdn the 17-55mm is steep but I feel that its worth every penny. But the lens does have a significant flaw. I used the lens for about two weeks without a UV filter and it accumulated dust in the behind front element. It was obsurd that such an expensive lens let in so much dust so easily...A bit of researching and I found that if you use a UV filter it will prevent dust. So I bought the B+W PRo1 UV0 lens and its been great. I sent the lens back for a quick cleaning and the filter has been on it ever since. Not a spec of dust. The other flaw with this lens (not the len's fault) is that the barrel is 77mm. That means that your built-in flash will not be useful if you shoot at 25-55mm. You will have a dark spot on the mid-bottom of your shots due to the flash not being high enough from the body. An EX580II will correct that issue.

I looked into getting primes but I realize that having a zoom lens is much more versatile. True pros use prime lens. 50mm lens does 1.4 or 1.8 but if you wanted a wide angle shot that will warrant decent bokeh, you'd be stuck.

Compare the kit lens to the 17-55 at a store and you'll notice how much of the toy the kit lens really is.

I bought a BG-E5 grip and it counterbalances the 17-55 weight quite nicely. I absolutely love the grip. My next purchase will be an EX580 mk2. The 70-200L F2.8 IS USM lens will have a wait a bit longer...One of the main reasons why I want this lens so badly is because I am 100% confident it will perform up to its par just like the 17-55 did. Bert Stephani basically has me sold on the lens.
You can check out his vids (episode 1-7) on youtube. You'll be sold! Too bad it cost about as much as two weeks pay.

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Canon EOS 450d/XSi, BG-E5 Grip, 4 LP-E5 battery, Canon EF-S 17-55 F2.8 IS USM, B+W 77mm Pro1 MRC UV0 filter, Canon EF-S 10-22mm USM, HOYA 77mm HMC UV(C) Multi-Coated Filter THIN, Canon 580EX II,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31510271@N05/

Just to add another user's review.

I bought a 450D a few months ago for the purposes of doing the photography for a book I'm writing.
I had some specific needs in mind, the most prominent of which was a live image facility - I'd be doing a lot of close-up work and didn't want to have to squint through a viewfinder...and I needed the precise framing of an SLR.
I also wanted a camera that I could use. I've had my fair share of them over the years, starting with a basic but useable Chinon, then a Canon AE1 and finally a Nikon FM2 before the advent of digital cameras brought out the gadget-lust in me - but more often than not I'd find myself wrestling with the camera rather than actually using it.

Reading the reviews and comments on this site helped me to narrow down the choices, but I knew it would be worth getting my hands on the various options rather than buying on spec, so I schlepped off to Park Cameras ( a great shop, incidentally - really honest, knowledgeable and helpful staff ) and spent some time handling and playing with the various models on my shortlist.
What was instantly clear ( quite literally ) was how bright the 450D viewfinder was compared to the competition. I think I felt it was just a touch brighter even than the 40D, but if not it was easily as bright.
I liked the weight - the 40D, although feeling like it was worth the cash, felt almost cumbersome beside the 450D. OK, it would probably withstand the knocks a bit better but then I know from my own trade that heavier kit tends to get heavier knocks.

The live view is perhaps a bit quirky in use, but then I felt I wouldn't tend to use it for general photography and I'd most likely end up using the facility via a laptop...and I'll have the time to faff about. That said, I've found it handy for general use - especially when taking shots of small wildlife.

I don't claim to be an accomplished photographer, but I've been very pleased with the results. The menu system is reasonably logical, and easy enough to access - and the time I spent adjusting my personal colour profile has paid dividends.
Because I'm very much an amateur I feel I've rather pushed the camera - expecting it to take fast action shots ( boxing ) in a poorly lit gym at high ISO ratings with fast shutter speeds etc. and quick shots with no regard to lighting, focus, contrast et al - and on the whole it's coped remarkably well. It has the capacity to be reasonably idiot-proof as well as being tweakable enough to provide excellent results if you're prepared to be adventurous.

I recently added a Chinese remote control ( £20 or so from ebay ) which has been exceptionally good, and made close-up work a breeze. It's great for tripod-based nature shots too.

I could have bought the 40D, and was admittedly tempted, but I walked out of the shop with the 450D and still haven't regretted it.
More than anything though, this camera has rekindled the enjoyment I used to get from photography. I have hundreds of completely pointless shots of buildings, people, you-name-it etc. that I took on my old film cameras - and although the shots might not be that great I still love to look at them and remember the days I spent just wandering around with nothing more in mind than taking pictures. For that alone I love the 450D.

Regards,

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Stephen Howard
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Author, Haynes Saxophone Manual

Hello Stephen. First of all, I wanna thank you for writing down your experiences. Your remarks are a testament to what photography is about: it's about you enjoying your hobby and the camera being a tool in that process.

By the way, I've visited your website. Interesting subject you're discussing there. I'm more of a piano-man myself, but I'm very curious to how your photography is going to look. Keep up the good work and good luck with your book!

I'm very curious as to how my photography is going to look too!
I've got a couple of continuous lightboxes and a decent background - and a capable camera - and as you've seen from the site I've done a fair bit of close-up work, so I'm hoping it'll all come together.
I think half the battle is knowing exactly what shot you want - after that it's all about finding out how to make it happen ( that's my theory, and I'm sticking to it! ).

Regards,

_________________
Stephen Howard
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Author, Haynes Saxophone Manual

Shonen84: I'm going to HK over christmas and will shop around for camera stuff. Can you recommend any good stores?

Hey Ringo,

Sorry for the lateness of this reply.

Good stores are: Wing Shing Photo Supplies/Man Shing (where I bought my 450D), Fortress and Broadway Camera (more expensive but most reliable), Citicall, Tin Cheung. Mong Kok (Kowloon) is a good area, and so is Stanley Street (HK Island)

Do NOT buy in Tsim Sha Tsui. As a rule, stores with many salesmen and "Sony" neon lighting are unreliable: they sell grey market and refurbished. Even in the more reputable ones, be sure to ask for a stamp on your guarantee card, and specifically ask for Asian/Domestic Canon Warranty (keep nagging, ask for the salesman who's English is best). International Guarantee is only provided for lenses.

A small detail: if possible, ask for a screen protector. The store people will install them for you, for no added charge. I still have mine on in pristine condition, after 7 months of heavy duty, "camera in non-camera bag", rough usage :p

Here's a good guide to prices: http://www.ygdragon.net/index.php?page= ... aprice.htm

Good luck and tell us how it went!

I agree with Shonen84 about TsimShaTsui - and particularly avoid Nathan Road and its environs like the plague! The shops are mostly tourist rip-offs, bait & switch, etc.

I have a son resident in Hong Kong - if it would be helpful I could pass him your details. PM me if you'd like.

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Chris
Lofou, Limassol
Cyprus

Canon EOS 40D, Canon EF 24-105mm f4 L IS USM, Canon EF 35-80mm 4-5.6 III, Canon EF 50mm 1.4 USM, Tamron 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3 Di II VC