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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:42 am 
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Thanks CFR, my fav food :) nyum2 will correct it tommorow. Do you like your A200?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:56 am 
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It's a good comparison but the specs on paper don't really do a camera justice in my opinion. For example, I consider the D80 and K10d to be superior to the 450d and E520 even without the latest features but because of more traditionally value features such as the larger viewfinder, dual command dials and a secondary LCD screen. I'm not trying to make a case for the D80 or anything but that's just my opinion after having used them both(my friend has a K10d). It's hard to get a good idea of a camera from studying the specs.

Areas such as handling are also highly subjective and can't really be rated especially without extended use of the camera.

Nice job though, how long did it take you? Days I'd imagine.... :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:02 pm 
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take me a full weekend


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:15 pm 
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im really sorry to see these reults, and I would like to respectivly talk about the cameras ive worked so far: Canon 40D, pentax K20d and k10D, nikon D80 and canon 450D
Ive worked with sony but not enough to have a say to it.


Pentax k20D has better noise handling than the 40D

and how does the sonyA700 has better IQ/resolution? the pentax k20D has the better IQ of its class, and it surpasses the sony in almost 2 Mp

And why is pentax runnig for the semi-pros? I think it would fit better among the enthusiasts rather than compeeting against the D200 or D300, which are fantastic cameras

I would agree about the k20D being overpriced, but sadly most reviwers only pay attention to its poor live view ( but itt serves the pourpose because most photographers will use the viewfinder) and only 3fps, but underrate the amazingly well done controls and editing features, that are a life-savior when working with a tight schedules and you dont have time to get to you PC and crop the pictures and make small ajustments in lightroom, in the k20D you will hardly need those.
I agree with the canon 40D rating, its a suberb camera (better for professional ocasions), i love it, along with the k20D (better for artistic and plastic photography) And it has 40 years of lenses avaibility, how is that low??


how the nikon D80 and the pentax k10D had such low score i would not know, since the k10d RAW image surpasses almost every rival in its class, and the D80 its just pure photography.
I could accept the 450D score because of its features, its a very complete camera, but its argonomics its just fitable to small handed persons, its very very small for mid-large hands like me and it doesnt have the toplcd which is fundamental when taking pictures in bright conditions.


Now im only picking on those peticular brands because ive used them and ive done several testes between them:

The k20 had the better IQ, the 40D had better and faster AF in low light conditions, but most of them were OOF while the k20d takes more time to focus but with great results, although for its price...

The nikon D80, although it has less features its by far one of the best preformers in its class, 3ichn lsd is not needed, its easier to break and scratch, 2.5 or 2.7 will do perfectly. it has a top LCD, has better argonomics and handling, live view its only needed to an extend... to sync with you pc and work remotly and in low angle shots.
The k10D jpeg is awfull, but i dont know why anyone who loves photography would choose a compressed format to display their work of art, the pentax RAW is very, very good, although the k10D AF is somewhat slow compared to rivals.

Now all of the above is a result of some tests and personal preferences, so please take them in a subjective way, like the tread Creator so nicely said in the boards, i just felt i had to say something to this matter because i think it adds some fairness.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:25 pm 
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The chart is a good starting point but like most of what the others have mentioned, can be quite misleading to the new dslr users. I have had the chance to either own or use the sony A200, 350, canon xsi, xti and the nikon d80 and the fact that i chose to keep the D80 other than these other cameras meant that, (at least to me) the D80 was a better choice.

The reason for this is just that the D80 is just that good. It didn't have features like in body stabilisation or dust removal systems but the question here is, do you really need them? Both nikon and canon uses in lens stabilisation which means the body dont (there are both pros and cons to in lens or in body stabilisation). And my experience with the sony dust removal system was just awful. Pretty much as effective as my D80(which has none). So then why is the D80 so pricey? Well it had other features which werent quoted by the charts such a s a better built in flash system (raised higher for more range), a second less refelctive display on the top which is a god send if you do as much outdoor/nature photography as me, low noise at high iso (its pretty dark under the canopy sometimes), great viewfinder for specs wearers like me and most importantly ease of button access ( the buttons for major changes are placed right for someone with my hands at least). These were the actual factors that led to me passing off the a200 and xsi, ending up with the d80 albeit an older camera.

Is it to say that it is better than the rest of the cameras mentioned? Definitely no but it is also much too misleading with the score given (and i'm sure the chart didn't so some of the other cameras much justice either). The chart is a good idea but like i said it is quite misleading especially to those without dslr knowledge. Why do i say this? Simply because the D80 is definitely a much better tool for taking photographs than some of the other mentioned cameras (will not state names), even though it lacks some features that other cameras have.The reason for this is because many of these features built in do not contribute for a better picture quality but instead for functions which are in place just to keep up with other gimmicks that other camera companies have come up with.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Quote:
Pentax k20D has better noise handling than the 40D


Ok, I will give +1 point on the Pentax k20D ISO handling

Quote:
and how does the sonyA700 has better IQ/resolution? the pentax k20D has the better IQ of its class, and it surpasses the sony in almost 2 Mp


I read that Pentax jpg mode, color, white balance and metering is not as good as others. Although the RAW mode will help, but most of beginners
or space concious do not bother to shoot and edit RAW later. So I can't
give a full point. While Sony A700 is famous for its image quality and dynamic range.

Quote:
pentax runnig for the semi-pros?


I think Pentax is positioned its k20d in semi pro level because of the price point, image resolution and its complete "modern" features.

Quote:
how the nikon D80 and the pentax k10D had such low score i would not know, since the k10d RAW image surpasses almost every rival in its class, and the D80 its just pure photography.


k10d image jpg is really bad and ppl loves good jpgs, AF is also sluggish.

D80 lack of modern camera features that would benefit beginners,
but I aggree, if you're in pure photography it is good, dual screen helps
but the price of D80 is not helping either.

But I will add 1 point on D80 feature based on LCD screens and some
subtle things that Melvin mentioned above.

Thanks :) Will update the chart later when I;m back home


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Thanks for taking it under concideration =)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:56 pm 
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oh and one more thing about D80, since Nikon has IS in 18-55 kit lens I will add Yes-Lens on the build stablization


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:12 pm 
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Hi Enche Zein,

My internal alarm bells are ringing slightly - yes, that's what the odd noise is. :lol:

Over in this post Philip asked whether you have experienced the Olympus E-510 underexposing images. It's a totally fair question but underlying it is an assumption that you own the camera.

For all I know you do but therein lies the problem. I know you start off this thread by stating that "I do not own all of these gears and my review is subjective". Very creditable but would you consider updating that initial post in this thread so we, and in particular neophytes, know which cameras you have actually tested? It might also be useful if you were to include a Signature (you can do this by editing your Profile). This isn't so that you can swank about your equipment but it helps others evaluate where you are coming from when you post.

Providing this feedback would, IMHO, avoid a situation where the unwary reader might be tempted to assign your subjective comparisons in this thread equal weight with hands-on reviews such as Gordon's.

Please accept the above totally in the spirit of wanting to improve the resource available to others. I really meant it when I thanked you earlier for your hard work.

Bob.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Enche Zein wrote:
Thanks CFR, my fav food :) nyum2 will correct it tommorow. Do you like your A200?


Love my A200! It's always with me. It's really versatile too. I think it handles noise wonderfully. On sunny days with the kit lens (which I despise until f/8-11), I bump the ISO to 800 and turn noise reduction off and all my images come out really clean.. (at least to my eyes). The image stabilization is really great and nice to have. Even though sometimes I may turn it off and forget to switch it back on.

I can't wait to get a flash and more lenses.


I will not say that I don't regret that I got it, because at times I do. But I tell myself to be content with what I have because I might not have it tomorrow.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Hi Bob, I don't know exactly what you mean, but I edited the first post putting down equipments that I have owned or tried.

for the signature tho, I prefer to be none at themoment. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Don't spread rumors!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:34 pm 
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The Pentax K20D has a very good and improved JPEG engine over the K10D. The K200D also inherits a very good and improved JPEG engine. Both cameras offer fine tuning of the standard image tones.

Pentax colors are fine, there are no major problems with how Pentax's reproduce colors.

I will admit that in indoor lighting the Pentax's auto while balance can be quite poor.

And quite frankly, the whole slow Pentax AF gimmick is just a myth.

Your chart just compares specifications, there is much more to a camera than just specs, including the camera operator.

There are many options in the DSLR market and different cameras from different manufacturers cater towards different levels and markets. So I'd say that it'd be wrong to put Canon and Nikon at the top of all your categories just because they have the most market share.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Quote:
And quite frankly, the whole slow Pentax AF gimmick is just a myth


Hi thanks for the comments,

Pentax AF doing fine in bright sunny light, but
it hunts a lot in low light situation.
SDM lenses might help but I do not have hands on experience on it yet.

Quote:
So I'd say that it'd be wrong to put Canon and Nikon at the top of all your categories just because they have the most market share.


Yes, I agree, the score is not based on the market share.
But might be the quality of the products, services, marketing (pricing)
that make the company getting larger market share than the other?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:28 pm 
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The score is based on research you've done on the internet, instead of acctually trying it, dont take me wrong but i dont see the porpouse of guiving a review of several cameras if you havent even tried most of them.

Cameralabs already has reviews and to be honest yours is just a little biased and canon/nikon sided, guiving smaller rising brands a hard time to impose themselfs, making even bigger the whole between them, when we all know, or should know that in practice that gap does not exist.

Note: i dont mean to sound like im discrediting your threads, its just i dont really see the point


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:04 am 
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DxO is completely worthless. Its inclusion reduces the credibility of your chart.

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