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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:37 pm 
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Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
Attention K10D owners!

You're all pretty passionate about your K10Ds, so I wondered if any of you were thinking of upgrading to the K20D?

Does it offer any features you really want?

Does it fix any issues or problems you have with the K10D?

Has Pentax missed out anything really important on the K20D?

Be great to hear what you think...

Gordon


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:11 am 
Hey Gordon

Well, i don't know much cuz I just got the K10D 3 days ago

However, I think that,
for the reason of a tight budget I wouldn't

The price for a K20D is way higher compared to K10D in Malaysia for some reason which made me not considering it :P :P

For the such a difference in the price and a relatively minimal change, I personally would not :P :P

What do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:31 am 
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Bonsoir Gordon,

I see 4 groups I would like to check or see checked on the K20D over the K10D :

Group 1: main advantages
  • resolution 14.5 vs 10 M pixels - more pixels at the expense of picture quality?
  • CMOS vs CDD - how colour nuances are catched: remember the red affair and the red affair continues?
  • expanded ISO mode - closer to HDR?
Group 2: welcome update to K10D limitations
  • improved shake-reduction - more reliable than experienced?
  • improved anti-dust with dust alert
  • improved AF - faster? more reliable?
  • faster continuous shooting - the K10D delivered 3 images per second with a pause after the 6th: remember the ducks swimming?
  • software ergonomics (menus) - K10D menus were difficult to navigate and poorly worded: is there an improvement?
Group 3: why not?
  • live view - does it work?
  • digital filters with modes (like portrait, landscape)
Group 4: to be checked
  • hue added to saturation, contrast, and sharpness - how complex it gets to set all these parameters: what I called once pre-processing?
  • hardware ergonomics (buttons) - still as good as the K10D?
  • twisted pictures - between sensor and viewfinder as on my K10D before repair
  • learning curve for a K10D user updating to a K20D


Now, is the K20D worth upgrading :?:

Sure, the K10D was (and is still) an excellent camera, so the K20D is very promising, with so many exciting new features like incredible resolution (if image quality remains as good, obviously :!: ), new sensor technology and extended ISO.

Now, for obvious financial resaons, I can't update my gear every year :( This year, I plan to get the DA* 60-250mm f4 lens. Maybe in 2010 I'll go for the K30D :wink:

If I were a professional photographer, main reasons for upgrading would be in group 1. Also, comparing the same picture taken with the K10D and then with the K20D will give the go :!:

I stay tuned :)

Best regards from France,

_________________
--- rei_vilo
Pentax K-5 + BG4 + DA* 16-50 + DA* 50-135 + DA* 60-250 + AF-540FGZ
reivilophotography.weebly.com


Last edited by rei_vilo on Thu May 15, 2008 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Whilst the K20D does appear to be a worthy upgrade I will not be considering an upgrade for at least three years (I'm a bit tight with my cash and I am a father to a 4 year old boy who is trying to compete with his Mum to see who can spend the most of my hard earned pennies).

Should something drastic happen to my K10D (I am touching wood and hoping that it does not) then I would have a decision to make.

:D

_________________
K10D + optimistic idiocy

My pic's - http://www.flickr.com/photos/10126769@N05/


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:04 am 
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Bonjour Gordon,

Do you have an estimated date for the release of your much anticipated K20D review :?:

Best regards from France,

_________________
--- rei_vilo
Pentax K-5 + BG4 + DA* 16-50 + DA* 50-135 + DA* 60-250 + AF-540FGZ
reivilophotography.weebly.com


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:47 pm 
hello everyone, this is my first post and i'd like to start off by thanking everyone in the site for the wonderful information and community that is cameralabs.com

this might be a little bit of a long post, but i want to give some perspective on why i switched from a k10 to a k20.

i had started off with a minolta film slr, then switched to a bridge digital camera that lasted a few years until i could afford the pentax k100d. it is a great camera, and i liked the fact that it took standard aa batteries. but, the main subject of my photography are my small children who do not sit still for anything. my capability to predict when they will be in the right pose/ facial expression is not very good, and the limited raw buffer of the k100d has caused me to miss the perfect moment enough times that i switched to the k10D.

with the k10, i suffered from the crooked viewfinder, but it was not to difficult to correct with software. what made me unhappy was the rather high noise level at iso800. with a lot of the shots taken indoors (school activities etc), i really needed the extra sensitivity. buying a fgz360 helped somewhat, but only for close-in shots.

got the k20d after i saw the iso 800 pic samples, and i have been very happy with the results i was able to get myself. no more crooked viewfinder either. focusing time seems slightly faster. the shutter sounded better (subjective, and probably unimportant, but the first thing i noticed). longer battery life a plus. i have no use for and have not used live view in all honesty, so can't comment about that. the extra detail at 14mp vs 10, i cannot appreciate it that much in the prints. pixel peeping at 100% yes, but in my non-professional real world use, can't tell the difference. did have less pictures on each sd card, so add the cost of more 4gb memory cards.

my assessment after a month with the k20 is that in terms of performance it is an improvement. but, the k10d arguably represents the best value for money ( i got mine for approximately $600, the k20d for $1100). i can't help but feel that i'd rather have $200 back and remove the live view function from my unit. either camera way exceeds my skill level at this point, i'm just fortunate to be able to afford the luxury. whether $500 is a fair price for better iso 800 performance, longer battery life and to straighten out the view finder will have to be a personal choice.

on a side note, i have not seen any hot pixels on my pictures, but since i don't use live view, i might not be able to create the environment that produces these hot pixels.

from an objective point of view, a canon 30/40D might have served me better, with faster burst on the 40D and better low light performance with both. in my case though, the in body stabilization was the clincher.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:58 pm 
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Bonjour docablas,

Thank you for your feed-back on the K20D vs. the K10D :) It confirms my position not to update my K10D for a K20D and save me a lot of EUR :!:

Could you provide the same picture taken with both the K10D and the K20D :?:

Best regards from France,

_________________
--- rei_vilo
Pentax K-5 + BG4 + DA* 16-50 + DA* 50-135 + DA* 60-250 + AF-540FGZ
reivilophotography.weebly.com


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:30 pm 
hi rei,

i don't have the k10 anymore, but i can go over some of my older files and see if i can re-shoot it with the k20.

i don't know how to post pictures on the site either, but i will be happy to e-mail you the raw files (or jpegs, whichever i can attach) for you to peruse.

my k10D and a new da* 50-135 costs about the same as a k20D, so really...i should just get over it and just keep taking pictures

alfredo


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Bonsoir docablas,

rei_vilo wrote:
It confirms my position not to update my K10D for a K20D and save me a lot of EUR :!:

Well, to be honest, the EUR are not really saved :? I plan to spend them in a new lens, the announced DA* 60-250mm :wink:

_________________
--- rei_vilo
Pentax K-5 + BG4 + DA* 16-50 + DA* 50-135 + DA* 60-250 + AF-540FGZ
reivilophotography.weebly.com


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:34 am 
some pictures of philadelphia zoo wildlife, all taken with the k20+tamron 70-300Di. originally shot in RAW-PEF, increased dynamic range set to on. converted to jpg via lightroom, only adjustment is for exposure, no cropping, sharpening, clarity, or other post-processing done.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26728915@N08/


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:15 am 
Interesting thread. I really like the fact that ALL Pentax lenses can be used on their bodies, and those pancake lenses are so cool. Excellent results in your zoo photos docablas!


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:06 am 
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Bonjour docablas,

Excellent pictures : thank you for sharing :)

Have you measured the impact of increased dynamic range, by taking the same picture on and off :?:

Best regards,

_________________
--- rei_vilo
Pentax K-5 + BG4 + DA* 16-50 + DA* 50-135 + DA* 60-250 + AF-540FGZ
reivilophotography.weebly.com


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:07 am 
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Hi everyone, I'm pleased to announce we've just posted our K20D review!

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Pentax_K20D/

Please comment on it in the other thread in this section though - thanks! Let's keep this one to K10D owners thinking of upgrading...

Gordon


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:11 pm 
with the increased dynamic range on, there was less highlight clipping in my initial comparisons, so i have it on by default now, unless i fiddle around with the exposure compensation. i haven't done any hdr shooting yet.

thanks for the comments about the picture. i purposefully did not do post-processing so you can judge the camera's capabilities. the flamingo shot was really ruiined by the strong CA above its head.


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Bonsoir Gordon,

Based on the 4 groups of criterias I defined and the excellent in-depth review by Gordon, here are the positive, neutral and negative points I've noticed :

Group 1: main advantages
  • resolution 14.5 vs 10 M pixels - more pixels and excellent picture quality
  • CMOS vs CDD - true enhancement
  • expanded ISO mode - closer to HDR but level range not fully used
Group 2: welcome update to K10D limitations
  • improved shake-reduction - as reliable
  • improved anti-dust with dust alert - dust alert a plus
  • improved AF - as reliable
  • faster continuous shooting - unchanged
  • software ergonomics (menus) - unchanged
Group 3: why not?
  • live view - not convincing
  • digital filters with modes (like portrait, landscape) - colour nuances: risk of over-processed colours
Group 4: to be checked
  • hue added to saturation, contrast, and sharpness - how complex it gets to set all these parameters: what I called once pre-processing? - not reviewed
  • hardware ergonomics (buttons) - as good
  • twisted pictures - not available
  • learning curve for a K10D user updating to a K20D - same ergonomics


Now, is the K20D worth upgrading :?:

I would say yes since the group 1 criterias are met, if the group 1 is important as for professional photographers. However, the price point makes the K20D value proposition unclear between semi-pro and budget/prosumer.

I as wrote before, I plan to get the DA* 60-250mm f4 lens this year. Maybe in 2010 I'll consider and go for the K30D :wink:

Best regards from France,

_________________
--- rei_vilo
Pentax K-5 + BG4 + DA* 16-50 + DA* 50-135 + DA* 60-250 + AF-540FGZ
reivilophotography.weebly.com


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