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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:42 am
Posts: 224
Location: Almere, The Netherlands
Hi guys,

Still having a hard time deciding what body to pick, but I am convinced that I want a super tele first. My 70-200 just won't cut it when shooting birds or wildlife. There are two options for me, as far as I can tell: the Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM and the Canon EF 400/5.6 L USM.

Obviously the 100-400 is more flexible, and has a high image quality, but especially in the corners it seems that the 400 prime has the edge on 400mm. IS is missing on the prime, and it is bigger than the zoom lens. The 100-400 has this push-and-pull zoom mechanic though, which I heard some people call a vacuum cleaner. It supposedly sucks in dust and other sorts of nasty stuff that will get on your sensor.

So now I was hoping to get some first hand experiences with both these lenses, so I can make an informed choice. Really looking forward to reading what you guys think. If you have alternatives in the same price range (and by that I mean not a Euro/Pound/Dollar more than the 100-400) then I am always interested in learning about them. The Sigma and Tamron have disappointed me in the image quality department though and their slower autofocus is not something I am willing to settle with.

Kind regards,

Mike

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Cameras: Canon EOS 7D, Canon EOS 40D
Lenses: Canon EF 17-40/4 L USM, Canon EF 24-105/4 L IS USM, Canon EF-S 60/2.8 Macro USM, Canon EF 70-200/2.8 L USM, Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM
Want list: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, Canon EF 100/2.8 Macro L IS USM, Canon EF 500/4 L IS USM
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtkoopmans/
Website: http://www.mtkfotografie.nl


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Location: UK
Dust is not a real issue with the 100-400L, no more than it is with any other extending zoom. I've never had the 400L, doesn't seem to be any point since the image quality differences are marginal at best, and you're getting a lot less flexibility.

Assuming you really need 400mm and you don't want to go 3rd party, there isn't really anything else in this budget. Only thing I can think of is have you tried a 2x on the 70-200? Probably wont be as good as either '400 but might be worth a look anyway?

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:42 am
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Location: Almere, The Netherlands
Hi Popo,

So the 100-400 doesn't really have a big dust issue? Well that's one disadvantage that I can take off the list then. The extender (even the III) reduces image quality way too much to my liking. The thing is that I expect to be zoomed in fully all the time, so not having the flexibility will probably not be a big issue. But something like IS might be, since I don't think I will have a tripod with me all the time. How good is the IS in the 100-400? If it makes a huge difference then that might be a reason to go for the 100-400, but if it is only marginally better than having no IS at all then the 400/5.6 has a small edge in the image quality department.

Difficult choices lol ;).

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Cameras: Canon EOS 7D, Canon EOS 40D
Lenses: Canon EF 17-40/4 L USM, Canon EF 24-105/4 L IS USM, Canon EF-S 60/2.8 Macro USM, Canon EF 70-200/2.8 L USM, Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM
Want list: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, Canon EF 100/2.8 Macro L IS USM, Canon EF 500/4 L IS USM
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtkoopmans/
Website: http://www.mtkfotografie.nl


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Location: UK
The 100-400L dust I think is a self propagating myth. It's frequently mentioned by people looking at but not having the lens. That's not to say there aren't some owners of it who do claim a dust issue, but without knowing their exact circumstances it is hard to say if it is really due to the lens, that another lens wouldn't also have had similar problems in the situation where it is used. I can only say, based on hundreds of thousands of photos taken with the 100-400L over many years on multiple bodies, I have not had a dust issue with any of them. And I do use it outdoors in all sorts of conditions, not hidden away in a studio.

The IS is... an old design, not very strong. Better than nothing and can help aiming especially if it's very windy. But I wouldn't say it is essential. I also had the 35-350L in the past, which doesn't have IS either and didn't find that to be a problem. Do note I'm not afraid of higher ISO as required to keep a usable shutter speed.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Location: Almere, The Netherlands
High ISO is not something that is a big issue. I am not afraid of going up with my ISO to get my shuttertimes to where I need them to be. I am shooting with a Canon EOS 40D at the moment, but am gonna try and add a 7D to my gear ASAP too. The 7D is perfectly capable of higher ISO's without degrading image quality to a useless level. So in the end I will be shooting with a 7D + 100-400 or 400 mostly. Still not convinced which will be more useful to me, though if I have the choice between being more flexible and less flexible I guess it should be an easy choice...

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Cameras: Canon EOS 7D, Canon EOS 40D
Lenses: Canon EF 17-40/4 L USM, Canon EF 24-105/4 L IS USM, Canon EF-S 60/2.8 Macro USM, Canon EF 70-200/2.8 L USM, Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM
Want list: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, Canon EF 100/2.8 Macro L IS USM, Canon EF 500/4 L IS USM
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:34 am
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I have been pulling oot my hair about the same thing. Now the only lens close to being near the same for 300 dollars less is the sigma 150 /500 I have never owned a sigma but the local camera shop swears buy them . But what I don't get if it is so good why don't they stock a thousand dollar lens they don't even stock the canon 100/400 . I think I need to move on with that store. They give poor advice , I would have bought a L lens and they pushed a tamron on me last time I like it but its got dust issues 2 months now after buying it. I like all the reviews ive read about the canon the only comments were it was it sucks air into the lens an dust too but no one has dust in when I ask the people its like a myth or something. So I nearly bought the sigma but camera labs report leads me to believe the canon is better as far and resolution or overall quality of the picture even fully extended. Sigma gets too soft fully extended. Now here is where I disagree with you on the 400L canon yes it is sharper but its a prime and you are not able to do anything other than 400mm . So here is the scenario a owl is roosting in a tree 50 yards away. A mouse moves the owl flys directly towards you and poof you loose the picture cuss you cant find the owl in the lens cuzz its to close. If your the best ever you ll have and eye or a beak picture but the 100/400 gives you the versatility to some in or out. Thus I will buy the 100/400 in the next few weeks. If you are only doing moon pictures get the 400 L but if your on a budget and what versatility get the 100/400L im pukin Ive spent a hundred hours over the last few weeks racking my brain on what one to get. Another option is the L 300 f4 and a converter2x but then your up to 1700 or a little more. Kelly


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:42 am
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Location: Almere, The Netherlands
Buy the 100-400: it won't disappoint you. Versatile, sharp, and overall a very nice lens.

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Cameras: Canon EOS 7D, Canon EOS 40D
Lenses: Canon EF 17-40/4 L USM, Canon EF 24-105/4 L IS USM, Canon EF-S 60/2.8 Macro USM, Canon EF 70-200/2.8 L USM, Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM
Want list: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, Canon EF 100/2.8 Macro L IS USM, Canon EF 500/4 L IS USM
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:44 am 
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Location: Speyer (Germany)
MTK wrote:
then the 400/5.6 has a small edge in the image quality department.


Not really... looking at the MTF charts the 100-400mm is pretty close. The 400mm's corners are a bit better.
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/61 ... ff?start=1
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/60 ... ff?start=1

I'm pretty happy with the IS. It's an old IS but I think it helps quite a lot.

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Canon EF 28-80mm 3.5-5.6 USM + EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 50mm 1.8 II + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:42 am
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Location: Almere, The Netherlands
My experience has been the other way around:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Revi ... &APIComp=0

As you can see here the 400 has brighter and sharper corners and a sharper and brighter mid-frame section. I think tests will come out different every time when checking the internet (so I won't know for sure till I have tried both myself), but this was my reference.

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Cameras: Canon EOS 7D, Canon EOS 40D
Lenses: Canon EF 17-40/4 L USM, Canon EF 24-105/4 L IS USM, Canon EF-S 60/2.8 Macro USM, Canon EF 70-200/2.8 L USM, Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM
Want list: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, Canon EF 100/2.8 Macro L IS USM, Canon EF 500/4 L IS USM
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:05 pm 
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I am surprised no one mentioned the 300mm f/4L IS USM with 1.4x TC.
A 1.4x TC typically performs a lot better than a 2x TC, and a lot of reports indicate the 300mm f/4 can handle it well.

Between the 100-400mm and the 400mm though, if you look at the imatest numbers on lensrental.com's quick test of the 200-400mm you will see the 400mm is really good.
That said, the 100-400mm is unquestionably more versatile than either zoom.

Either way, I am glad MTK is happy with his purchase.

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Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II, 24-105mm f/4L, 50mm f/1.4, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DO, 85mm f/1.8
Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX Macro

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:42 am
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Location: Almere, The Netherlands
Absolutely! Have my eye on the new Tamron 150-600 now though for more reach. But only if the image quality fully zoomed isn't horrible :P.

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Cameras: Canon EOS 7D, Canon EOS 40D
Lenses: Canon EF 17-40/4 L USM, Canon EF 24-105/4 L IS USM, Canon EF-S 60/2.8 Macro USM, Canon EF 70-200/2.8 L USM, Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM
Want list: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, Canon EF 100/2.8 Macro L IS USM, Canon EF 500/4 L IS USM
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtkoopmans/
Website: http://www.mtkfotografie.nl


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:19 pm 
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Maybe try a 1.4x TC on your 100-400mm to see what the images are like?

Even though you would be in manual focus mode, there are people who enjoy the shots taken with this combination.

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Canon 5DIII, Rebel XTi/400D
Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II, 24-105mm f/4L, 50mm f/1.4, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DO, 85mm f/1.8
Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX Macro

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon 430EX II
Opteka 13mm, 21mm, and 31mm extension tubes
Vivitar 50mm f/1.8 for OM System


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:42 am
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Location: Almere, The Netherlands
Well it loses me another stop of light as well. The Tamron will have 6.3, my 100-400 w/Extender will have 8.0. It is an option though, but I would prefer working without it.

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Cameras: Canon EOS 7D, Canon EOS 40D
Lenses: Canon EF 17-40/4 L USM, Canon EF 24-105/4 L IS USM, Canon EF-S 60/2.8 Macro USM, Canon EF 70-200/2.8 L USM, Canon EF 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM
Want list: Canon EOS 5D Mark III, Canon EF 100/2.8 Macro L IS USM, Canon EF 500/4 L IS USM
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtkoopmans/
Website: http://www.mtkfotografie.nl


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