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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:12 pm 
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I need help processing RAW images (now that I've got hundreds). These are .CR2 from both Canon EOS T4i and PowerShot G12.

Many guides I find on the Internet speak only of non-camera-brand software, like Lightroom (Lr) and PhotoShop (Ps). Before installing these, the only software I had that would read RAW images was Canon DPP (Digital Photo Professional). Not even Ps supports RAW out of the box. And my faithful GIMP doesn't know RAW. :( :cry: :evil:

They also speak of "zero-out" the RAW image file. I've got several issues with that. How do you apply absolutely no White Balance (WB) at all? My camera, Canon EOS T4i / 650D always applies some form of WB, as does DPP. What is "No White Balance", does it exist, and what temperature is it, and how do I apply it? The T4i also applies a Picture Style, as does DPP, although Faithful is zeroed out. I know (or at least I think I know) that WB and Picture Style are not applied to RAW images. But then they are applied anyway in DPP, and for as much as I know, in Lr as well. (I think I'm running Lr 4.4). How can you get software to no apply anything and know for sure?

I'm currently fighting to get Adobe Camera Raw plug-in setup with Ps in order to open RAW images. I'll have to get back to you guys on that progress.

But, DPP applies the JPG settings to RAW images by default. I don't know what Lightroom does, but it has a "Reset" button.

How does one really know if they've got the raw RAW?

_________________
-=- PalaDolphin
http://www.PalaDolphin.com
My equipment are:
Canon Rebel T4i / EOS 650D
lens: EF-S 18-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS STM
lens: EF-S 55-250mm 1:4-5.6 IS II
lens: Tamron SP 60mm F/2 Di II 1:1 Macro
Canon Speedlite 380EX flash
Canon PowerShot G12
Canon AE-1 Programmable w/55mm, 200mm, & 24mm lenses
bag: Lowepro® SlingShot 202AW


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:22 am 
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I'm a bit of a newbie myself. I just use DPP and never expanded into any other editors. I don't know anything about "zeroing out". The software in a RAW editor will always apply something because it has to take the RAW data and interpret into something viewable. Shot settings are the logical starting place.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Yah, that's the unwritten thing. They (the 'They' responsible for everything in the World) will tell you the RAW image is just stored with no WB. But they don't tell you is that some WB will be applied whenever a RAW image is viewed.

Now, the guys/gals over at National Camera Exchange (and they teach classes) that WB is nothing more than a filter. But, you can take filters off.

Another thing that bothers me is that non-specific settings will not tell you the temperature (i.e. As Shot, Auto, etc.). Specific would be Cloudy, Daylight, Shade, etc.

_________________
-=- PalaDolphin
http://www.PalaDolphin.com
My equipment are:
Canon Rebel T4i / EOS 650D
lens: EF-S 18-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS STM
lens: EF-S 55-250mm 1:4-5.6 IS II
lens: Tamron SP 60mm F/2 Di II 1:1 Macro
Canon Speedlite 380EX flash
Canon PowerShot G12
Canon AE-1 Programmable w/55mm, 200mm, & 24mm lenses
bag: Lowepro® SlingShot 202AW


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:29 am
Posts: 712
Personally, I think you're over-thinking it. Photography is an art, not a science. Post production/processing, even more so. There is no single absolute "correct" end point, much less starting point.

Having said that, when someone is trying to learn something new, I do understand the benefit of a consistent starting point. However, I also think it's more efficient to use a consistent starting point that as close to the desired end point as possible. So unless your desired result is a very flat, very underexposed image, I don't see any benefit to zeroing out everything and then unzeroing out everything.

Having said that, I personally do sometimes zero out certain settings -- e.g. noise reduction and sharpness -- and then add/increase them to my taste (especially when working with new hardware and/or in new circumstances, until I find settings that repeatedly get me close to what I want in this situation). But there's no reason I couldn't use a binary search algorithm from Lightroom's preset values to achieve the same result.

Having said that, Lightroom does have a "General Zeroed" preset.

Having said that, since there has to be a digital (camera sensor) to analog (human eyes) conversion, there's no way to get "the raw RAW" as you say. (And note that even an analog film negative can be "color timed".)

Oh, and an image with a Color Temp (WB) of zero degrees Kelvin would be pitch/pure/solid black - Mark

P.S. If you'd like an open source RAW app, you could try RAWTherapee or one of the other DCRaw variants.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:56 am
Posts: 96
So what you're saying is that there's always a WB applied?

_________________
-=- PalaDolphin
http://www.PalaDolphin.com
My equipment are:
Canon Rebel T4i / EOS 650D
lens: EF-S 18-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS STM
lens: EF-S 55-250mm 1:4-5.6 IS II
lens: Tamron SP 60mm F/2 Di II 1:1 Macro
Canon Speedlite 380EX flash
Canon PowerShot G12
Canon AE-1 Programmable w/55mm, 200mm, & 24mm lenses
bag: Lowepro® SlingShot 202AW


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:35 pm 
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White Balance temperature can range from 1000 K for candlelight to 10000 K for cloudy. What is it for Ektar 100 film? That would be a good starting point.

_________________
-=- PalaDolphin
http://www.PalaDolphin.com
My equipment are:
Canon Rebel T4i / EOS 650D
lens: EF-S 18-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS STM
lens: EF-S 55-250mm 1:4-5.6 IS II
lens: Tamron SP 60mm F/2 Di II 1:1 Macro
Canon Speedlite 380EX flash
Canon PowerShot G12
Canon AE-1 Programmable w/55mm, 200mm, & 24mm lenses
bag: Lowepro® SlingShot 202AW


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:09 am 
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Location: Toronto, ON
Ektar 100 is a daylight-balanced film (http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professi ... /e4046.pdf), which is ~5000 K.

RAW formats of images are datasets that contain colour-channel information across the pixel array for red, blue, and green channels. Each has a luminance value at a specific pixel (which is why you can get RGB histograms on your camera, as well as total luminance), and these luminance values are combined to provide a total output. White balance (Kelvin measurements and tint values) adjust the rendering of neutral tones... Which differ from shot to shot depending on the light source that is providing photos to form your image... Thus, there is no singular "white balance", it depends where your light is coming from :)

If you shot Ektar under tungsten or anything other than daylight-balanced light, you'd need a filter on your lens to fix the colour being transmitted to your camera, or else you'd have colour shifts. Essentially, filters would "adjust your white balance" before you took the shot, so as to render neutral tones correctly. Digital is great that way because if you're shooting RAW you can add your fluorescent or tungsten or whatever "filters" in post via White Balance sliders.

Does that help explaining things? I'll definitely agree with the sentiment that it's being over-thought, but it's never a bad thing to want to understand things :)

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Canon EOS 5D MkII | Canon EOS 7D | Canon Digital Rebel XSi | EF 35mm f/1.4L | EF 50mm f/1.8 II | EF 85mm f/1.8 | EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM | EF 135mm f/2L | EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS | 580EX II | LumoPro LP-120

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:29 am
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PalaDolphin wrote:
So what you're saying is that there's always a WB applied?

(...)

White Balance temperature can range from 1000 K for candlelight to 10000 K for cloudy.

Kinda, sorta, but not really. More technically correct would be to say that electromagnetic radiation in the human visible spectrum has a color temperature in a certain range.

Quote:
What is it for Ektar 100 film?

Probably "daylight". (Most film is either "daylight" or "tungsten".) You should be able to check the film's data sheet for a specific color temp. But remember that color correction gels/filters were used to fine tune WB beyond those two temps. And as noted previously, further adjustments can be made during processing.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:56 am
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Thanks Mark.

_________________
-=- PalaDolphin
http://www.PalaDolphin.com
My equipment are:
Canon Rebel T4i / EOS 650D
lens: EF-S 18-135mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS STM
lens: EF-S 55-250mm 1:4-5.6 IS II
lens: Tamron SP 60mm F/2 Di II 1:1 Macro
Canon Speedlite 380EX flash
Canon PowerShot G12
Canon AE-1 Programmable w/55mm, 200mm, & 24mm lenses
bag: Lowepro® SlingShot 202AW


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 Profile  
 
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