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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Qadri wrote:
Thank you for that. Very useful.

I understand that it has recording level meter but the sound can sometimes be fuzzy if your wireless mics are not connected properly.

I see. In that case the external mic is still preferred.

Qadri wrote:
So you mean use an external recorder and then sync the sound afterwards?

Yes you'd sync sound in post with something like Plural Eyes.

Qadri wrote:
I do have a professional digital recorder: Olympus LS-10 (and have access to an LS-11) - super sound but syncing will be a bit of an extra hassle. I guess that's the trade-off?

Yes, it is another step but I would argue that for HDSLR video shooting it is a normal part of the post processing workflow.

Qadri wrote:
In terms of your third paragraph, can you explain that to me more clearly and in simpler terms. I'm quite new to this coming from shooting on (semi-pro) mini dv and hard disk camcorders at highest setting. I was under the impression that the highest mbps and fps equals highest picture quality. Was reading today thought that many still prefer to shoot at 24fps. Need to learn more about this (I might be getting mixed up with video games).

Frame rate is your preference; 24fps for a cinematic look or 30fps for a more home video look. Here's an explanation of the differences between the two file compression;
Quote:
In All-I the compression is done in each frame is restricted to that one frame. In IPB, the compression is done across frames, by taking advantage of parts of the image that do not change from frame to frame.

I think the only real advantage is that you can cut to whatever frame you want with All-I. With IPB, since any given frame might be reliant on information in a previous frame, you are somewhat restricted in this capacity. However since you are being less restrictive on the compression algorithm (with IPB), you might get more detail and less macro blocking.


Qadri wrote:
So the G6 could effectively shoot as good as this (for all practical purposes in the end): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vneyqWzos1M ?

I'll checkout the video and reply back.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:00 pm 
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That's informative. So basically the sound processing in photo cameras is not as good as semi-pro video cameras (even higher end camcorders like Panasonic X920 or Canon HF G30?) so people use something else to record sound anyway?

I have some broadcast quality wireless mics so mmm thinking I could record with them anyway using the sound meter on display, and simultaneously use a standalone voice recorder and then in post go with whichever sound is better/is convenient at the time.

Here is another ay 72 mbps. It's cracking. Understand the lens has something to do with it but don't think I've seen anything online yet from the G6? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgIiaknxZQs - there are other related videos on the side that look super.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:09 pm 
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Qadri wrote:
That's informative. So basically the sound processing in photo cameras is not as good as semi-pro video cameras (even higher end camcorders like Panasonic X920 or Canon HF G30?) so people use something else to record sound anyway?

I have some broadcast quality wireless mics so mmm thinking I could record with them anyway using the sound meter on display, and simultaneously use a standalone voice recorder and then in post go with whichever sound is better/is convenient at the time.

Here is another ay 72 mbps. It's cracking. Understand the lens has something to do with it but don't think I've seen anything online yet from the G6? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgIiaknxZQs - there are other related videos on the side that look super.

If you have professional grade sound recording equipment, use it. For footage of the G6, google it. It's there online.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Yes but my point is that if the sound processing on the G6 (or any other DSLR type) is not so good I would not get the best out of the broadcast mics anyway so perhaps makes sense to use the standalone recorder.

Any views on those 72 mbps videos?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:36 am 
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Qadri wrote:
Yes but my point is that if the sound processing on the G6 (or any other DSLR type) is not so good I would not get the best out of the broadcast mics anyway so perhaps makes sense to use the standalone recorder.

What I'm saying is that you can get great sound by recording the sound using your broadcast mics into the G6. Not using the G6's internal mics. If your broadcast mics have a headphone out then you can also hear the recorded sound. If they don't your still left without headphone monitoring. Hence the suggestion to use an external recorder with headphone monitor.

Qadri wrote:
Any views on those 72 mbps videos?

The video is amazing. I do believe the G6 could also product results as good since nothing the GH3 did in that video was done in low light, which is where I believe you'd see the difference most.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:40 am 
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Keep in mind, that preeminent Panasonic G series hacker Vitaliy_Kiselev may be preparing a hack for the G6, which may enable 72mbps video recording in the G6. His website is http://www.personal-view.com/


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:30 am 
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For mbps comparison checkout this video.

Panasonic GH2 at 70 mbps vs Panasonic DMC-G6 at 28mbps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... ahjBtejyAk

It goes a long way to seeing if there is a difference between to high bit rate formats.

One thing I do see is that the GH3 uses 50mbps for IPB video were as the G6 uses 28mbps.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Thank you for those responses. Yes, the wireless mics have headphone monitor so it solves that issue! Did not occur to me since I use the video camera jack. That's sorted (plus will consider using my pro sound recorder and check which comes out better).

In that comparison video the GH2 at 72mpbs comes off slightly better in my opinion but not enough for my purposes justifying the extra cost for a GH3 (that's what I'd get today) and the file size being unmanageable puts me off, especially if you have say a 2 hr + recording (already took me 3 days to render a 3hr video at not so high quality!). As you say a hack may be out for the G6 anyway. I'll be sticking to IPB.

See what you mean about those 72mpbs videos I linked, the lighting is good whereas most of my stuff is done in doors so I should not expect that quality anyway.

About to make the plunge on the G6 but a very important question: how long can you continuously shoot video on the G6? I'm purchasing from the UK. Really hoping it can do an hour or so as that's the length of some of the speeches I record.

A related question is how long can a high capacity SD card store in terms of length of video at the highest quality?
--I assume there is very little space on the internal memory?

I hope I get positive answers because otherwise I might be forced into getting a high end camcorder or semi-pro videocamera. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:14 am 
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Qadri wrote:
About to make the plunge on the G6 but a very important question: how long can you continuously shoot video on the G6? I'm purchasing from the UK. Really hoping it can do an hour or so as that's the length of some of the speeches I record.

Bad news: all EU models are limited to a maximum of 30 minutes (technically, 29 minutes and 59 seconds) due to EU tax laws.

Quote:
A related question is how long can a high capacity SD card store in terms of length of video at the highest quality?

It's impossible to say exactly since AVCHD is a VBR codec, but the rule of thumb is ~4 minutes per GB. (Also note that mp4 doesn't span, so that format is limited to 4GB files or ~16 minute takes at 28Mbps quality.)

Quote:
I hope I get positive answers because otherwise I might be forced into getting a high end camcorder or semi-pro videocamera. Thanks.

Don't feel bad. As I've said before, the vast majority of people are better off shooting video on a videocamera.

Mark

P.S. Also as I've said before, keep your intended delivery/display method in mind. i.e. it's a lot harder to discern a difference in quality when viewing compressed video streamed over the internet versus, say, played back from a local server on a studio quality 4k monitor.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:39 am 
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Thanks Mark. That's not good news (stupid in my opinion) and I'll have to think about this. Is there a way get round it or a crack/hack to remove the -30min limit?

From what I've heard, unless your paying quite a bit more for a video camera, it does not match the quality of DSLR type cameras (especially at £550 for the G6). Plus it's the form factor and weight of the G6 that is appealing and the fact that it can take great pics too.

I hear what you are saying about not much difference between quality when the video is compressed on say YouTube. Yes, much of it will be on YouTube but I'll also be putting some stuff on DVD (so that stuff will be watched on larger screen TVs too, mind you compressed again with 4.7GB standard dvd limit).

I have another question also: I have read that you cannot hook the camera to a live monitor via HDMI (only playback), that's not so much of an issue for me as I hardly do that but what is important is being able to do live podcasts/streaming with it (even say to Ustream or Skype). Is that possible and if it is, how would it be done? Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:07 am 
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Quote:
Is there a way get round it or a crack/hack to remove the -30min limit?

Previous hacks (e.g. for the GH2) have removed the 30 minute limit. So if Vitaly and the folks at Personal View hack the G6, it might remove the limit. But do note that there's no guarantee.

Quote:
From what I've heard, unless your paying quite a bit more for a video camera, it does not match the quality of DSLR type cameras (especially at £550 for the G6).

First, make sure you're doing an apples to apples comparison. The standard 14-42mm kit lens, for starters, is much shorter than the lens on most dedicated video cameras. So you should probably look at adding the 14-140mm lens, which will about double your cost right there.

Quote:
Plus it's the form factor and weight of the G6 that is appealing and the fact that it can take great pics too.

That's the thing, though. Yes, the G6's form factor is better suited to capturing stills/photos, but conversely, a dedicated video camera will have a form factor that's better suited to video. So if you're primarily going to be shooting video, it will be easier if you use a device that's designed for that task. (e.g. try doing even a 5X zoom on a video camera with a lens that's designed to do this vs on a stills/photo camera with a lens that is not designed for zooming while taking a photo. Yes, you can add a cage, rails, and a follow focus to the photo camera, but now you've also added several hundred dollars to the cost. And you've lost the form factor you love.)

And many newer video cameras also capture still photos, BTW.

Quote:
Yes, much of it will be on YouTube but I'll also be putting some stuff on DVD

Keep in mind, DVD resolution is only 720x480.

Quote:
I have read that you cannot hook the camera to a live monitor via HDMI (only playback), that's not so much of an issue for me as I hardly do that but what is important is being able to do live podcasts/streaming with it (even say to Ustream or Skype).

Correct. The HDMI out is not live during recording. But given that the most common reason for using an external monitor is to aid in focusing, I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. Especially since the G6 has focus peaking. (And again, note that adding an external monitor (and cage, rails and follow focus (and external audio recorder) (and/or external HDMI recorder)) will seriously hose the G6's form factor.)

As for streaming, HDMI is way overkill. So you wouldn't want to do that, even if you could. Note that even the last Olympics weren't live streamed at HDMI quality.

And keep in mind I'm saying all of this as someone who actually shoots video on my GH2 and T4i. So if anything, you'd think I'd be biased toward hybrid photo/video cameras, not against them.

Mark


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:45 am 
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I've only ever used a DSLR for video, save for when I was young. These days I need a camera that can do double duty as a video camera as well. Certainly a dedicated video camera would work better if your doing alot of video but for casual events I prefer a dslr. My kit needs to be compact and easy to carry. It can't be a production just to capture footage. I like that the G6 in particular has so many other useful features that allow me to be creative while producing high quality photos and videos. I think the dslr as video camera and camera is a compelling and worth wild endeavor.

Also keep in mind that even with a dedicated camcorder, there are areas where a dslr will perform better ie. Low light performance and DOF.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:51 am 
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Thanks for those responses. I see what you mean and I do still have Sony HDR SR12e camcorder. I'm assuming the G6 video quality will be noticeably better than my Sony?

I was hoping to upgrade my point and shoot Canon at some point anyway so if it fails to perform at a good level on video, I'm sure it will do a very good job at taking pics anyway?

I'm also thinking it could be used for a second camera if it becomes impractical to use for the main shot (we sometimes use an additional side camera when recording speeches for a side shot of the speaker or panning on the audience). In that case I would buy a semi-pro video camera for the main camera, something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7hHxDh5OcM (interesting video that compares it with the GH3).

I think the G6 might be a safe bet in that case as I can't justify spending more on the GH3 for the headphone jack and would struggle to justify it for the unlimited continuous recording (that's for my purposes).

hionhifi, like your point about low light as most shooting will be indoors (a lot in the evening indoors too).

Maestro, thinking of starting out with the standard lens and then do some research into what the best lens would be for speeches. Mmm...the 14-140mm lens is a lot cheaper if bought as a package http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras/di ... 1-pdt.html (local store).

Or as two separate lenses: http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras/di ... 2-pdt.html - not sure.

Oh and any thoughts on how to do a live podcast/broadcast with the G6? - Help appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Qadri wrote:
Thanks for those responses. I see what you mean and I do still have Sony HDR SR12e camcorder. I'm assuming the G6 video quality will be noticeably better than my Sony?

I have no experience with the Sony HDR SD12e.

Qadri wrote:
I was hoping to upgrade my point and shoot Canon at some point anyway so if it fails to perform at a good level on video, I'm sure it will do a very good job at taking pics anyway?

The G6 will certainly be an upgrade to your point and shoot if only because you can interchange lenses.

Qadri wrote:
I'm also thinking it could be used for a second camera if it becomes impractical to use for the main shot (we sometimes use an additional side camera when recording speeches for a side shot of the speaker or panning on the audience). In that case I would buy a semi-pro video camera for the main camera, something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7hHxDh5OcM (interesting video that compares it with the GH3).

The G6 would be a perfect second camera for the b-roll and such. But it all depends on where and in what conditions you’re shooting in, in which case, the lens is important. In low light you will need not only to worry about framing the shot, but having a bright lens to put enough light onto the sensor so as to keep the ISO down to control noise. Shooting in bright light, you’ll need to think about how you want to frame the shot, which will determine which lens to use.

Qadri wrote:
I think the G6 might be a safe bet in that case as I can't justify spending more on the GH3 for the headphone jack and would struggle to justify it for the unlimited continuous recording (that's for my purposes).

The headphone input on the GH3 is a non-starter, let it go. You’ve already determined a solution for how to deal with the missing headphone jack on the G6. By all means if you have the money to blow, buy the GH3 for the headphone jack but it would be a big cost outlay for little to no improvement in audio quality since you already have pro audio solution with your pro wireless mics.

Qadri wrote:
Maestro, thinking of starting out with the standard lens and then do some research into what the best lens would be for speeches. Mmm...the 14-140mm lens is a lot cheaper if bought as a package http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras/di ... 1-pdt.html (local store).

I know this question for for Maestro but I’d like to add here as well. I suspect your shooting indoors which almost always presents a problem of not enough light. In that case you’ll need bright, fast lenses. Here are several that will suit your needs.

Bright Zoom Lenses
Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 12-35mm f/2.8 Asph $1298
Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 Power OIS $1498

Bright Prime Lenses (Auto Focus)
Panasonic Lumix G Micro 4/3 LEICA DG SUMMILUX 25mm f/1.4 $529
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 45mm f/1.8 Lens $399
Panasonic Leica DG Macro-Elmarit 45mm F2.8 ASPH OIS $719
Panasonic Lumix G 14mm f/2.5 ASPH Lens $250
Panasonic Lumix G 20mm / F1.7 II ASPH Lens $428
Panasonic Leica DG Nocticron 42.5mm F1.2 $unknown, due later this year.

Super Bright Prime Lenses (Manual Focus)
Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95 Lens $999
Voigtlander Nokton 25mm f/0.95 Lens $999
Voigtlander Nokton 42.5mm f/0.95 Lens $999

Personally I’ve picked up a Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 12-35mm f/2.8 Asph and will be buying a Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 Power to match it. At this point my kit will be complete. Then I’ll be adding specialty lens to the kit. First will be the Panasonic Leica DG Nocticron 42.5mm F1.2 (no pricing yet). Then maybe something longer like a 150mm 2.8 that Panasonic has planned.

Among the many reasons primes lens are great is they are bright, but not very flexible. If you have limited placement options, a prime lens may not allow you to frame the shot the way you want. That’s where zooms come in. They allow you to zoom without using your feet which in my previous example isn’t an option.

Qadri wrote:
Oh and any thoughts on how to do a live podcast/broadcast with the G6? - Help appreciated.

You may be able to use to the WiFi video streaming ability in the G6 to stream directly to USTREAM. I’ve never tried it but that may provide an option.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Thanks for that impressive list of lenses. That's the world that is very new to me. Do you think it's not then worth going for any of the bundles (kit lens) in those links I gave?

I think I'd go for auto focus as I've not tried my hand at manual focus. I notice the super bright ones are manual, and a lot dearer too. The power zoom you have is even more expensive! It seems like the body is only 50% of the camera!

Because these are bright lenses (especially in the case of prime as you say), are they versatile enough to use outdoors in natural bright light?

Just thinking from the top of my head, I'd probably have a portrait view for podcasts (head to waste, room for arm movements and a bit of desk perhaps)--would remain in one place. For conferences I'd have a wider view and would be useful to have zoom here...oh, and I'm assuming you can take great pics with them too?

Quote:
The headphone input on the GH3 is a non-starter, let it go.

Yes sorry. That's no bother now. Just meant that headphone jack certainly does not justify it and what I'm struggling with more with is -30min limit, which is not an issue on the GH3.

Quote:
You may be able to use to the WiFi video streaming ability in the G6 to stream directly to USTREAM. I’ve never tried it but that may provide an option.

Now that is interesting, if it can actually do it!


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