Camera Labs

I think you are combining multiple issues into one question, where the answer should actually be multifaceted.

A digital camera is made of the following parts:
1) lens
2) sensor
3) image processor
4) a casing
5) an interface (buttons, displays, etc)

All of those parts get an upgrade when making a DSLR, regardless of brand.

A better lens will dramatically increase the clarity of the images (known as Image Quality), can also let in more light (better aperture), and offer image stabilization (IS, VC, VR, etc).

A better sensor will capt the subtleties of your photo better, improve the range of lights that can be distinguished at the same time. Taking an interior photo of a window as an example, you can either expose for the inside, which is much darker, or for the outside, which is very bright. A professional DSLR will give you a better range, and you might be able to capture both. A good sensor will also influence how large you can blow up a picture (megapixels), and the amount of grain added by high ISO. A Canon S90 will have similar grain at ISO 200 as a T2i would have at around ISO 800, for example.

A better processor will let you take pictures faster, focus quicker and more accurately, and create better .jpeg images.

A better casing for the camera will provide better weatherproofing, and offer better impact resistance with sturdy metals instead of cheap plastics.

Finally, a better interface will let you tell the camera what you want to accomplish faster. Some point and shoots offer full manual controls, but will often hide ISO settings deep in menus, or make manual focusing insanely slow.

When you take all these into consideration, all things being equal elsewhere, the same photographer in front of the same subject using the same lighting will get better pictures with a DSLR than with a point and shoot. Can professionals such as Chase Jarvis take better pictures with a Lego camera than most people could with his Nikon D4? most probably. But give anyone a DSLR, and you will still notice an improvement in the quality of their photos.

As far as the crop factor affecting the aperture, I think Maestro doesn't understand how crop sensors function. Using a crop camera will not affect how much light the lens lets through. A 50mm f/1.8 will let in as much light on a T2i as it does on a 5dIII. If you want proof of it, take an external light meter, measure the light, and put the settings your light meter recommends into both cameras, and you will get more or less the same exposure (and if everyone used lenses measured in t-stops instead of f-stops, then you would get even more similar results). If a scene requires f/11, 1/400 and 400 ISO on a top full-frame camera, then those same settings will also work on a crop DSLR or a P&S.

But all that being said, most Point & Shoot cameras released recently perform much better than most top DSLRs performed 10 years ago. Even a lot of cell phones are providing very impressive image quality for something where taking photos is just an extra feature. The photos and videos coming out of an iPhone 4S and the newer droid cameras are good enough for many situations.

_________________
Cameras: Canon EOS Rebel T2i, Canon S90
Lenses: Tamron: SP70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon: EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens, 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III, and EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Retired camera: Fujifilm Finepix s700

Hi, i just registered because i was searching for this particular topic on google and found this discussion. I have had a fuji s7000 for 7 years and i have taken some great pictures with it, my brother has an slr and he also takes some excellent pictures, yesterday i thought i would treat myself to a new camera and bought a canon 650d, it's a lovely camera with some amazing features, i took a few pictures, went to my in-laws and took a few there, portraits and group shots and other random stuff, but i wasnt as happy with the pictures as i am with my fuji, now as it was a new camera that day i was only shooting in auto, apart from the portraits when i used portrait mode, but overall the pictures just weren't as good as the s7000, i got home and i did lots of test shots with both cameras, same subject, same conditions, the fuji shot looked way better, i know there are all the manual settings to consider, but surely if the canon was worth the money it could at-least do better in auto than the fuji but it didn't, i just want to know what you guys think before i decide to take it back and stick with my faithfull old fuji.

Couldn't agree more. As mentioned above this isn't exclusive to photography. Lots of people buy expensive gear that they will never make full use of. Photography is just the same. The photographer takes the photo, not the camera. Someone who doesn't take the time to learn about Aperture, Shutter speed, ISO, composition and exposure simply isn't going to get the most out of an expensive DSLR and would be far better served by a P&S.

_________________
Dan Marchant
I am learning photo graphee - see the results at www.danmarchant.com

Welcome!

Short answer (without getting into too many details): if your current camera does everything you want satisfactorily, then there's no reason for you to upgrade.

Longer answer: it would help to know specifically why you weren't happy with the pics from the 650D. i.e. what specifically did you find "way better" about the pics from the Fuji. It would be even better if you could post some of the test shots you took with both cameras under the same conditions (so we could see both the images and the EXIF data). But even then, just because the 650D isn't worth the money for you doesn't mean it's not worth the money for everyone else. Also note that, in addition to more manual settings, another advantage (I would go so far as to say the more important advantage) of the 650D is the ability to use different lenses. (I'm assuming you did your test with just one lens, probably the kit lens, which is generally a "jack of all trades, master of none" type of lens.)

As I've said before, it's about finding what best fits your particular needs (which may or may not be what's best for everyone else) - Mark

Can you post some photos, same subject, one with the DSLR and one with the Fuji?

_________________
Canon Powershot S95, Canon 7D, 15-85, Canon 85 1.8 USM, Sigma 30 1.4, 50mm 1.8, Canon 100 2.8L IS Macro, Canon 70-300L IS USM+Kenko 1.4 Pro 300DGX, Canon 430EX II and RS 4 Classic

Hi, i kind of knew in a way what sort of answers i was going to get because i have only used the kit lense and i was only trying auto, i did try the portrait mode too, i have been taking pics with the fuji for a good few years now and took some nice pics with it http://mem.photo4me.com/portfolio2.aspx but wanted an slr hopefully to improve and be more creative, i admit all i have done is try it at home so far because i only had it a couple of days ago and haven't had a chance to go anywhere, but the thing is, the fuji does take nice photographs, even in auto it does a really good job, so even though i know to get the best out of the slr i am going to have to learn and start using all the manual settings, i thought that the canon would take as good, if not better pics than the fuji, even in the auto or programed modes but they dont look as good, the fuji takes sharp colourfull pics and the canon ones look grainy and noisy, the fuji will freeze moving objects perfectly and the fujis are blurred, even outdoors in broad daylight. The only reason i came on and asked so soon after buying it is because i dont want to dither about until its too late to return it. My brother has a 550d and takes some stunning pics, but i dont see them straight out of the camera, i dont know how much of it is post processing, i'm used to looking at my pics from the fuji and thinking wow. I did sit and read for a good few hours last night and try the manual settings out, i read about the exposure triangle and started to grasp it, so i played around with the settings and the exposure meter and sort of got the hang of it but when i looked the pics in full on the pc they were still noisy and slightly out of focus.



maxjj hi, if you tell me what mode to take them in i will take some but you can only view them at a certain size on here cant you?

These are not a very good example i'm afraid, first two are the slr second two are the fuji, canon was in manual fuji in auto

Well, again, if the Fuji does everything you want in a way that you're satisfied with, then there's no reason for you to upgrade. But if you'd like to explore this further...


Color (in JPEGs) is most likely due to the different processing engines/algorithms that each manufacturer uses. So if you like the look of Fuji, this would be another reason to stick with them and not switch to another brand. Or, most DSLRs allow the user to tweak color settings in the camera. Or, you can tweak color in post (especially if you shoot RAW).

As for noise, I don't see any in the pics you posted, but you're right that the smaller size may be hiding it. Although, I also don't see any reason that a 650D would be noisy at ISO200 which is what the EXIF you posted says was used. But if you'd like to explore this further, you could crop out a 500 x 500 pixel section (preferably the shadow area at the base of the tree) and post that.

And blur (caused by both subject motion and camera shake) is obviously going to be more of an issue with a 1/20 shutter than a 1/60 shutter. And this could also make the images appear slightly out of focus. Two semi-automatic ways to get the Canon to use a faster shutter is to use Sport mode or Shutter Priority.

HTH - Mark

i think i was jumping the gun a bit and worrying over nothing, the only pics i had taken were indoors and with the flash on as i was with the fuji, but my brother explained that i wont need flash with the canon indoors, i have taken pics indoors without it and on manual setting and it's better, plus on those outdoor shots above parts of it on the fuji are over exposed and the same bits are not on the canon ones, and the canon ones were taken in manual, i have done a bit of reading since the other night and have started to grasp the basics of manual already and i am starting to understand it a bit more now. I have decided to stick with the slr and try to learn more about how to use it. I would like to try and be more creative and the slr is the way to go i think, plus, i might be happy with the fuji but i will wish one day i wasn't limited to what the fuji can do and wish i had kept the slr, so it might aswell be sooner rather than later.

So any advice for someone starting from scratch with an slr will be much appreciated.

Ande - glad you decided to stick with the DSLR... it's definitely a big step up in terms of learning curve, but it's not impossible

You're luckily on one of the best sites to get started with... Check out the photo tutorials here on Camera Labs: http://www.cameralabs.com/photography_t ... ooks.shtml

Good luck

_________________
Canon EOS 5D MkII | Canon EOS 7D | Canon Digital Rebel XSi | EF 35mm f/1.4L | EF 50mm f/1.8 II | EF 85mm f/1.8 | EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM | EF 135mm f/2L | EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS | 580EX II | LumoPro LP-120

My Flickr

thanks, i just sat and watched all of them It's not as daunting as it seems really. I think i was equating it to learning the guitar.

You can drive to the shops in a mini metro. You can also drive to the shops in a Maclaren P1. However, once you get onto a wide straight road or a race track the similarity ends. The Maclaren is a far more capable vehicle when it comes to high performance. However you will need to be a much better driver to get the best out of it and that will require that you learn and practice.

DSLRs and P&S are the same. Your photos above are snapshots - a digital drive to the shops. Any camera can take them. In fact it may well be easier with the point and shoot because of the automatic nature. However, once you move up to more creative and challenging photography the DSLR will show its strength.

_________________
Dan Marchant
I am learning photo graphee - see the results at www.danmarchant.com

I understand what your saying and thats exactly what i am going to do, i'm going to take full advantage of this new camera and try and be more creative, i just looked at your blog, some beautiful shots there considering you say your learning.

There does seem to be quite a bit to learn. First master the camera (where the buttons are, how they work) and get used to using them all without thinking (being able to adjust aperture/shutter/iso while shooting, without having to consult a menu or manual). Then just when you have got the hang of that you find you also need to understand composition because just being able to set the shutter speed won't make for a great photo. Then add in exposure. Sure you can change the shutter/aperture/iso so that the little arrow lines up properly on the exposure meter.... but that doesn't mean you actually have the correct exposure. Meter off a white wall, green grass or black rock and you will get three different readings. You will need to understand how to read the light in a scene in order to decide if you need to compensate. With all that and more I know I am certainly still learning.... but enjoying doing so.

_________________
Dan Marchant
I am learning photo graphee - see the results at www.danmarchant.com

Hi, took the new camera out this weekend for a walk in the countryside, tried some landscapes and photographed the horses, iv'e been reading every night solid and thought i was getting my head round it all, but when i get out there and try and put it into practice it just doesn't seem to work for me, been trying in the garden today too, just practicing different distances at different settings etc, even if i remember some of the info i have read and try it i still seem to get soft or unsharp pics, iv'e tried faster shutter speeds, different apertures, plus even when i use the exposure meter i look back on the pics on the pc and some of them are really bright, i think my main problem is i understand it all in theory when i am swatting up online but when i get out and point the camera at a particular scene i dont know what settings to apply, i have a rough idea but they still dont seem to work, i had some half decent shots after editing some of them but i dont want to rely on having to edit all my pics before they are any good.
I hate not being able to check what i have just taken too, you cant see these screens outdoors.