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 Post subject: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:34 am
Posts: 178
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Hi to both Robbon and Krp. I hope you see this post here.

Both of you recently made comments on my pictures, and I really appreciate your comments! I've had a lot of people say I have really "nice" pictures, but until now, I haven't had anyone able to tell me how to make them what I know they could be. I've been thoroughly enjoying the posts from both of you, and I know my pictures are not up to that level yet. I've done almost no editing of my pictures yet. I just run out of time. I am out taking pictures as often as possible (usually at least some every day), at work and also on my time off, but I get only a little computer time. I have all my SD cards saved, and have tens of thousands of pictures on the laptop, but will have to wait for a day when I am snowed in to do anything more.

I like the Canon Powershot I have mainly because of its portability. I have it with me all the time, but I miss a lot of pictures because I can't get close enough. I came across a whole field of turkeys the other day and will have to play with those pictures just to show them better. There were over 75 of them. I've never seen such a large group at once, but I needed a better camera with me for the pictures I wanted. The deer are ever present. Eagles are relatively common as are cranes, herons, and other water birds. I'm often in the right place, at the right time for a great picture, but don't have the right camera. This is a great place for taking pictures, and I am learning as fast as I can. I've just about worn out the settings on this camera, so will be getting a new one soon.

Kpr, the duck pictures you commented on were taken at the Wildlife Sanctuary and a few of them in the large aviary at the zoo. The ducks there are mostly ones that are rehabilitating. I am there often for work and also for the fun of it, and I keep my camera handy. The picture of the swans was taken at the tip of Door County last summer. They were in a small harbor and were only a few feet from where we were standing on the dock. I also saw your post about the lighting. You are right. I am often in the shade, or it is a dark gloomy day. I am usually out in all weather, misty, rainy, wet, dark, foggy, snowy...
I do love how the color on your pictures are so much better than mine.

Robbon, you were right on the leveling. I can't believe I missed it. I always try hard to make sure things are level at the very least. I do need to do at least a little editing on my pictures. Right now, I am learning this camera inside and out, and when I move up to the next camera, I will do the same with that one. I don't think I even have an editing program on this laptop, and if I did, I doubt I could edit without losing the page. The laptop is about to die , but I will put money into a new camera before the laptop. I do spend a whole lot more time behind the camera than I do the pc, and I am working to get the best pictures I can get with the camera I have. I am hoping that eventually, I will be able to take this up to something more. I will try to check your link tonight. Thanks for the tips!

I do know the camera is only as good as the person taking the pictures, but sometimes I wish it was a little faster, or had a better zoom. On this camera I have with me most often, the date/time feature no longer works, and I am starting to have trouble with some of the settings. I like to have it in my pocket when I am out in the woods, kayaking, in the water, on the beaches, climbing rocks... I need a camera that is shock proof, and water proof, but still has a great zoom, and I am not sure if that exists. I've seen some that are waterprooof and shockproof, but they are usually limited to a smaller zoom. The ones with the best zooms would not stand up well in my pocket. I've been busy reading the reviews here, and am looking for the next step up.

I hope you both see this post here.
Thanks!

Shawn (XNavy)


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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:13 am 
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Posts: 1977
Hi X...

I know you posted this to 2 others but Id just like to say its great to have another wildlife photographer around sharing their work and stories... I know I love looking at the pics and listening to how ppl got them.. we have a great core group of ppl here who are very helpful... I too started with a cannon superzoom several years back and really enjoyed the camera... there isnt a lot they cant do and Im sure you will get many great pics with it. I would think the first thing you will get frustrated with is trying to get action shots such as birds in flight or animals running. I know back when I owned one that was the biggest thing for me after a while and I couldnt believe how fast a DSLR focused when I first got one.

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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:22 pm
Posts: 597
Location: Alexandra, Central Otago, NZ
Hi x

Great response and to be honest this is why the forum is here.

We have some really great photographers here most of whom are amatuer hobbyist fanatics!

We learn a lot from each other and I have learnt lots since I first posted here.

The simplest of changes can make a world of difference.

Even if you start by putting the photo into Microsoft photo editor, part of the windows office suite and do some basic auto fixes and cropping to level or focus the image subject then this is a start.

I use adobe lightroom rather than photoshop as its incredibly cheap for a superb processing program but I also have an old version of photoshop which I got free a few years ago that still does the basic stuff that I need.

You will soon find that by doing some simple tone adjustments make your pictures pop and by cropping and levelling they become easier on the eye.

You are taking some nice shots with the camera you have and whilst budget may be restricting you it's a challenge to get the best out of your camera.

I only recently updated my camera to the canon 550d from the old 300d and yes it has made a difference in the quality of the images but its how I see the image that really counts, and that what you need to focus on in the meantime, get the best image you can which is how you see the image.

Keep going, keep posting, we are keen to help and give you tips, we will also learn from you !

Rob

:D

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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:18 am
Posts: 1781
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Hey xnavy,

I'd love to have a duck spot like that,it would certainly make things easier but..."getting there" is half the fun for me.
I think the jump to an slr will make a lot of difference in a lot of areas.
Focusing and zoom being the most prevalent for the types of shots you like.
The portability of a point/shoot is beyond measure really until you see the difference of what you end up with then the extra of lugging gear is well worth it...I promise.
I'm not plugging Pentax but they have the best weather sealing on the market bar none.
I've tested it in extreme temps,around salt and fresh water in small open boats,rainstorms and blizzards and it's still firing fine.
Reading reviews is one thing and a first step but getting to a shop and actually/physically handling some cameras is essential....
FIND ONE THAT "FITS" YOU...just like a rifle,bow,hockey stick,golf club etc,the better it fits the better it will work.
If budget restricts you,get a body first and add a lens later maybe.

I use a free program from online "faststone" and do a bit of lighting and color maybe a pinch of contrast/saturation then crop and that's about it.
Ooops,yes you can rotate/level also. :wink:
It allows you to view the original pic before saving plus you can save a COPY vs change the original.
I try to do my processing as I get pics and delete what I don't want and save what I do but I save it on an external hard drive (1 terra bite of space = less than $100) :mrgreen:
I usually clean up my picture files once a month,my laptop thanks me every time.

Take the plunge and switch to slr and maybe a 70-300mm lens (Sigma lenses are quite affordable)
You have the knack plus bug...feed it :twisted:

I wanna see those turkeys!!!
We don't have them here in Nova Scotia...
I travel to Maine each spring to ummmm ...SEE... some,they are very tasty :shock: ...I mean photogenic :wink:
They aren't easy to get close to that's for sure and with 75 sets of eyes I just can't imagine!!!

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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 1977
the only thing I would add to the above regarding wildlife photograhy is you can be the best photographer in the world and know everything there is to know about your camera and gear but it all does no good if you dont understand the animal you are after enough to get close to it. For me the hardest and most fun part of wildlife photography is studying the behaviors of the animals and the environs which they frequent.

Simple things like knowing you will always be able to get closer to an animal when you are in a car than when on foot. knowing how to read signs animals leave... One thing kpr and I used to joke about but which really says a lot regarding understanding the animal is knowing that just before a bird, especially a large bird like a raptor, is about to take off it will deficate so if you want that perfect pic of an eagle launching itself off a perch just approach it until you see it deficate... when it does get your camera up and ready because there is a 95% chance it will take off within 5 seconds.

There are so many little tips regarding wildlife photography that have nothing to do with the camera or photography its amazing.

And of course dont forget the rule of thirds as it will make for a better pic 99% of the time... of course the most important thing about the rule of thirds in my mind is not to treat it as a rule but as a guide. A pic can at times look better when not applying the rule but as said above... 99% of the time it will improve your picture composition.

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Canon 7D + 50D + EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM + EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
Pelican // Black Rapid // Think Tank // Manfrotto // Garmin

Reflections On Canadian Wildlife
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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 1977
just dug up this link.. hope you find it interesting.. its a long read though :)

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=26143&hilit=a+basic+guide+to+wildlife+photography

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Pelican // Black Rapid // Think Tank // Manfrotto // Garmin

Reflections On Canadian Wildlife
My Flickr


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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:34 am
Posts: 178
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Hi to All, and Thanks!
Wolfsong, I'm glad you jumped in.

I agree with the comments about getting out there. For me, that is much of the fun. I was out again today, and saw more deer in the fields. I took a bunch of pictures, but haven't downloaded them yet. I'll get to that in a few hours. But I was able to sit there and watch them for a long time. For me, it is as much about getting out as anything else. I am kind of an "accidental photographer." I didn't know I really enjoyed it until just a year or two ago when I picked up my first cheap digital (a little $69 GE that was actually quite good.) I got hooked quite unintentionally. Getting out somewhere and seeing an eagle, or a heron, or the every present deer is always a thrill for me. Getting a great shot of them is a bonus - kind of like the icing on the cake. The two hobbies naturally compliment each other.
This time of the year, the geese are gathering to fly south, and the air is filled with their song. I love getting out really early in the morning (well not so early this time of year since it takes longer for the sun to come up.) The ice is building at the edges of the water now, but when the weather is nicer, one of my favorite things to do is to get out in a kayak before the sun is up. I like that mist on the water, and watching the animals come down to get a drink. And watching all the shifting colors in the sky before the sun comes up. I liek being on a wet, wild empty beach, or at the edge of Lake Michigan when the ice has started to form. Now a few good pictures has me wanting more. I travel every chance I get, not only around the US (which I have done a lot of this last year) but also on sideroads and dead end roads around the county I live in. I've put more miles on my car in the last 6 months than most people do in a year or more.

Kpr, I was looking at some of my pictures of the turkeys, and was able to count over 75. I know there were more that I wasn't able to catch in that frame. I needed a panoramic shot, I think. I'll post some, but again, they are unedited, so forgive me for the poor quality. I have a LOT of pictures of turkeys. They are quite common here. This group must have known that Thanksgiving, and hunting season, was over here. I believe they were having their own Thanksgiving party. I do agree on the tasty part, lol. :)

I have to admit to all of you that I have almost no idea what any of the terms are for cameras, I have no idea what any of the rules (or guides) are - even the rule of thirds. When I read something that mentions something like the rule of thirds, I have to go look it up (haven't yet, but will - thanks!) I do feel like a little like a fraud posting pictures here, but I have to say, you have all welcomed me without predjudice. For the most part, I am just out there taking pictures of everything: rocks, animals, trees, clouds, bridges, lighthouses, sand on the beach, shells, people, buildings, roller coasters, ice, snow, puddles, Christmas lights, fireworks - whatever. I am playing with the different settings, trying the same shot with multiple settings, or with different zoom lengths, getting out in the dark, in the bright light, in the rain, in the fog... I've heard of slr, iso, the rule of thirds, etc, but honestly, I have no idea what any of them are. I guess it is like learning to play the piano without any lessons. Now I want to get better, so I am here to learn, and am finding that I missed all of the basics. I usually know what I have to do to get a certain picture, but I don't know the name of any of the notes.... I am learning partly by reading, but a lot just by getting out there and seeing what the camera can do, and what its limits are. (My little GE was better in caves than this one is. My friend's Nikon takes better night pictures, and has a better zoom, but is not as good as mine when you just turn it on.) I am doing things with this camera now that I would not have known how to do a year ago, and finally feel confident in my ability to handle the next camera.

Wolfsong, I count is as a great compliment that you called me a wildlife photographer. I know that right now, that's being very kind, but thanks! It made me smile. I look forward to living up to that compliment.

To All, thanks for the tips. I'll have some things to read up on, and I'll keep them in mind when I get back out.


XNavy


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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:40 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 1977
X

you take pictures and you love taking pictures of wildlife = wildlife photographer in my mind :) I refuse to judge ppl based on my interpretation of what I percieve to be good or not good.. who am I to question what another individual is very proud of accomplishing in any field. I am a chef by profession and a good one at that.. over the years I have recieved many awards and have been asked to enter just as many competitions as I was "sure to recieve the gold medal". To this date I have never entered any competition. Not because I am afraid to do so or because I think I am better than anyone else or even because Im afraid to loose. I choose not to enter because I am confident and happy with my results and as such really dont give a rats a$$ aqbout what anyone else thinks. I have the same opinion towards my photography and I give everyone else that same respect when they choose to post any pic. If you are proud of it and happy with it that is all that counts. If you want an opinion I am more than happy to comment on the technical stuff but will never make a subjective comment unless asked for.

everyone here was at the point you are at at some point and the great thing about this site is that we all seem to remember that and are more than willing to help others along the same path. And we are all still evolving! I learn something new every time I go out. When I think that it has only been just about 1 year since Gordon published my book and that the pics in it are for the most part about 2 years old Im amazed at the progress I have made since then. Doing it again today I dont think I would use 20% of the same pictures. It wasnt so much about me improving my photography skills but more about spending more time in the wilds and having more opportunities at shooting certain species. Even on days when I dont get pics I still learn something.

I think we took somewhat the same path in regards to photography. I have been a nature nut all my life since I moved to canada. It started as a boy hunting trapping and fishing with my step dad. As the years passed I have always loved fishing but dropped the hunting part for the most part although I still love eating wild game. Photography for me was just an evolution in my love for nature and gives me another reason to get out... like you the pics are a bonus and I cherish them all as they all tell stories. I have been lucky enough over the past few years to actually make money off of it without any deadlines or pressures to get a pic and I love that and that is the most it will ever be for me.

ALways remember that if you have any questions ask.. someone here will answer... I know for myself sometimes it may take me a few days as I am starting to travel quite a bit again but your questions will get answered. There are also a lot of answers here already in previous posts... like the one I linked above... but ask anyways.. I know it can be overwhelming at times searching all the posts to find an answer.

and honestly.. when all is said and done I enjoy looking at any wildlife pic that is posted here.. especially if it has a story to go with it. Never feel your pics dont match up to some unknown standard as none of us here feel like that. If you want critisism we are more than happy to do that hopefully in a constructive way so it benefits you. but if you just want to post to share an encounter please do so... I personally love reading about what happened when someone takes a certain pic.

And it goes beyond wildlife of course.. although I stick to the wildlife forum as that is my love all the other forums are just as helpful in getting answers of that type of photography...

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Canon 7D + 50D + EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM + EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
Pelican // Black Rapid // Think Tank // Manfrotto // Garmin

Reflections On Canadian Wildlife
My Flickr


Last edited by Wolfsong on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Posts: 920
Location: Kanduhar, Afghanistan
So Shawn, your username XNavyHM3 I take you are a former Sailor and HM3 is your rating. As a Soldier I HATE Navy ratings because I never know what your rank is :lol: So I'm betting the 3 is a Petty Officer 3rd class or 1st Class, what does the HM stand for? I only know what IT stands for because I worked with an IT2 for about 7-months in Afghanistan. I know your rating tells someone what your job is but WHY can't the Navy just go by rank like ALL the other services? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Army Staff Sergeant Mike Carrigan

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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:18 am
Posts: 1781
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Hey soldier mike...no picking on us ex navy guys...you're out numbered :lol: :lol:

Exnavy....

Don't let settings or rules worry you any.
Trial and error is a great teacher and the best thing about digital is...the delete button 8)

There are no "real" rules!!

SLR...non point/shoot camera with interchangeable lenses....."the next camera" :wink:
Rule of thirds....placement of subject in pictures and picture composition etc

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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:34 am
Posts: 178
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Thanks guys,
HM3, Hospital Corpsman = the marine docs, and sooo much better trained than Army... 3rd class = E4, and I guess the Navy uses our ranking because we are the only ones smart/dumb enough to do things a little differently. (kpr, I KNEW there was something I liked about you!) It's one of those traditional things...

I was active for 6 years. This is a sailor without a boat though. Maybe that's why there's so much water in a lot of my pictures. I've been all over the US (I've driven more miles across this country than most over the road truck drivers.) Overseas duty never happened -
Soldier Mike - I've been to your Flickr account. Lots of military in our family so I identified with many of your pictures.

Can someone explain the rule of thirds to me, or is there a good link to questions like this? Someone told me about looking for x's and diaganols in the picture, another about a 25/75 % guide for light and dark, and I know the horizon should be level and not in the center of the picture. The tips I've gotten have been ones from people who are artists rather than photographers, but, hey, as picture is a picture, right? Oh, and another question, if the river or lake, or water line is curving, how do you show that while still keeping things level? (I'll probably ask this is the landscape section if I can't find the answer somewhere.)

Krp, I do love the delete button, but for me the best thing about digital is that once you buy the camera, the next 10,000 or so pictures are free. :) No film to develop unless I want to. Snap, snap, delete, snap, upload, (fix) share... Yes, the SLR is the next step for me. BTW, I just downloaded 18 pictures of turkeys, will post some tomorrow under the non-duck bird thread.

Wolfsong - I got as far as Marine Wildlife. I have to be back up in a few hours, so I better get off for a while and get some sleep. I'll read more as time allows. You've got a lot of information there, and some beautiful pictures. Nice job. I envy you your time in the wild. I've thought about going back to school as a forest ranger, just to have more time outside on a regular basis.

Way past bedtime here. I like to be up before the sun so I can get out a little before the rest of the world wakes up. Night all,
X


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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:14 am 
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I have to admit, its a passion for wildlife photography and wildlife in general that has kept me going back to this forum. Ultimately I am a bit selfish here, but its all about looking out for all things that we look out for ourselves in the long term.

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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:57 pm 
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rule of thirds...

imagine drawing 2 vertical lines on your pic and 2 horizontal lines on your pic that are equally spaced dividing your pic into 9 equal portions.

1) now visualize the 4 points where the 4 lines intersect on the pic. These are points where the human eyes are naturally drawn to and if we place our focus point at one of these 4 points this is how most ppl find their images most pleasing and the easiest to look at. A natural focus point would be an eye of an animal or any other specific spot that you feel is the largest point of interest in the pic.

2) if the point of interest cannot be placed at one of these 4 points the next place to consider putting it is along 1 of the inner 4 lines which create the smaller box inside the pic when dividing it the way explained above.

3) the bottom and the top lines which go across the pic dividing it into 3 equal part up and down can also be used as lines to set your horizon. If you are highlighting the landscape below the sky the horizon should be placed along the top line making the bottom 2 thirds of the pic landscape and the top 3rd sky... if you want to hoighlight the sky place the horizon along the bottom line reversing the focus to the top 2/3s of the pic and the sky.

4) the exact center can of course still be used as a point of focus or as a horizon line if the pic is more pleasing by doing so.

5) while keeping in mind the rule of thirds you may also want to lead some of your subjects to get a more pleasing result. What I mean by this is if you have a duck swimming, a bird flying or even just looking in one direction, or and animal do the same you may want to leave some empty space in the direction the animal is moving or looking to give the appearence of the pic extending in the direction of the look or of the movement.

6) keep in mind that although it is called a rule it is more of a guide. there will be times when a pic will just look more pleasing if you throw all the above out.


In regards to a shoreline that bends. A lot for me comes into play here...

1) if it is a landscape shot with trees of course it will remain angled as that is the natural pic.

2) your point of interest is an animal, object or person with a horizon/shoreline and by leveling that horizon it in no way makes the pic look fake do so. By fake I mean having distant trees or grasses or anything else in the pic at an unatural angle.

for the most part I leave my horizons natural.

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Canon 7D + 50D + EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM + EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
Pelican // Black Rapid // Think Tank // Manfrotto // Garmin

Reflections On Canadian Wildlife
My Flickr


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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:34 am
Posts: 178
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Thanks much! I appreciate the time you took to explain that to me.


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 Post subject: Re: to Robbon and Kpr
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:22 pm
Posts: 597
Location: Alexandra, Central Otago, NZ
Like we keep telling people, ask a relevant question get a useful answer! :D

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