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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:01 pm
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Location: NW England
1st thing, above all else.......go to a store if poss & hold the cameras in your own hand!
With never having owned a DSLR before, the menus, button layouts etc shouldn't be an issue, as you won't have to re-learn anything. (I much prefer the Nikon, but others don't. Personal choice)

The D800E should, in theory, give the best detail, but much of shooting pics isn't JUST about the camera. Lenses are maybe more important, as is technique. Also what your main subject matter will be.
Also don't expect miracles with ANY camera, you won't be able to crop/zoom into a faraway landscape tree & see individual leaves in detail!

In A year or so there may be an even higher MP camera announced? Technology is moving so fast that todays new camera can be superceeded tomorrow.

Before any of this though & spending a fair chunk of money, it may be beneficial for you to buy a cheaper used DSLR kit & learn a bit about actually using it & indeed if you actually like the idea at all.

btw, if you DO get hooked ........ it can get real expensive long term. :wink:

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Image btw,He who dies with the most toys, WINS!
Nikon D800E & D700 bodies + Nikon 200-400mm F4 VR1, 50mm F1.4G, 16-35mm f/4G VR, 105 F2.8 VR macro, 70-300mm lenses. A couple of filters, Giotto tripod & ballhead. Lowepro Slingshot 302 AW
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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Buying a 5D Mk III or D800, or D600 or D5 Mk II or 6D is a complete and utter waste unless you're printing big.

$2000US rules all of these out anyway, as you'll be without a lens.

But hey, blow your money...


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Seriously, this forum is getting bonkers!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:42 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 1417
Location: Mexico City, Mexico
dubaiphil wrote:
Seriously, this forum is getting bonkers!

+1

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Gear: Canon SX20 IS, Canon Rebel T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Which lenses are you thinking you might need first? Also what do you think your budget will realistically be in a years time?

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Image btw,He who dies with the most toys, WINS!
Nikon D800E & D700 bodies + Nikon 200-400mm F4 VR1, 50mm F1.4G, 16-35mm f/4G VR, 105 F2.8 VR macro, 70-300mm lenses. A couple of filters, Giotto tripod & ballhead. Lowepro Slingshot 302 AW
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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:01 pm
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Location: NW England
dubaiphil wrote:
Seriously, this forum is getting bonkers!


+ 2 :lol: :wink:

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Image btw,He who dies with the most toys, WINS!
Nikon D800E & D700 bodies + Nikon 200-400mm F4 VR1, 50mm F1.4G, 16-35mm f/4G VR, 105 F2.8 VR macro, 70-300mm lenses. A couple of filters, Giotto tripod & ballhead. Lowepro Slingshot 302 AW
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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:24 am
Posts: 1815
If the D800 and 5D mk III 'have faults that dont meet your standards' as you put it, I'd just go with a Hasselblad H4D-60 and a selection of reasonably priced primes.

I seriously don't know what you think you're talking about! Proper balance of analog and digital quality?

Surely you're better off taking a lesson with a basic camera first to see if there is another constraint to your study of overall image quality.

i.e. - to see if you can actually learn to take a good picture. You can have the best camera in the world (2020's world, because 2012 obviously isn't good enough currently for your demanding requirements) but if you're a plum behind the lens, you'll get cr&p output.

Sh!t in, sh!t out, as I have heard from my conclusive studies


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:29 pm 
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ZEMBANU wrote:
dubaiphil yu misunderstand me, when i say anolog quality I mean the focused images from the lense and how the sensor captures it, the digital quality being the translation of the image to digital and the final digital quality.


I understand you very clearly....

I clearly understand that you don't understand a thing!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:04 pm 
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This might be what you need ZEMBANU https://www.lytro.com/living-pictures#l ... &_suid=528

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Image btw,He who dies with the most toys, WINS!
Nikon D800E & D700 bodies + Nikon 200-400mm F4 VR1, 50mm F1.4G, 16-35mm f/4G VR, 105 F2.8 VR macro, 70-300mm lenses. A couple of filters, Giotto tripod & ballhead. Lowepro Slingshot 302 AW
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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:24 am
Posts: 1815
Nothing is what you want!!!!! Nothing will meet your requirements for looking at twigs and hair follicles

Start saving for the day now. Maybe in 10 years....


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 1417
Location: Mexico City, Mexico
Hold on guys, no need to fight! Unfortunately for ZEMBANU though, dubaiphil has some really valid arguments, you're looking for something impossible to achieve or just way too expensive to get. If you seriously want a camera that can achieve that detail, maybe you could spend tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars to get a custom-made camera that meets your demands.
Currently, the highest resolution commercial digital camera I know of is the Hasselblad H4D-200MS, which is a 200 MP camera. This camera is $45,000 USD, so go ahead if you want to spend all that money on a camera.

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Gear: Canon SX20 IS, Canon Rebel T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Wishlist: Canon EF 100-400mm f/4-5.6L
Visit me and leave me a comment in My Flickr :)


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 10:34 pm
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Location: Mexico City, Mexico
I don't think I understand you very well, I'm yet not sure of what is what you're looking for. Is it a full-frame camera? Or are you looking for just any camera with good IQ? Also consider lenses, as these do a really important job in getting a good shot.

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Gear: Canon SX20 IS, Canon Rebel T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Wishlist: Canon EF 100-400mm f/4-5.6L
Visit me and leave me a comment in My Flickr :)


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 850
Location: SE Texas
When sufficiently enlarged, any image will come apart. To enlarge a normal portrait to the point of seeing Hair follicles, it may be advisable to look at medium-format digital. Phase One and Hasselblad come to mind, though they are far beyond my budget. A Nikon D800E, in theory, with really good glass, would be the best DSLR available at this moment in time, for extreme resolution. My budget limits me at present, though I may rent (hire) a D800E and lens.

If I want to show small detail with a DSLR, such as individual hairs, I use my Canon 100mm 2.8L Macro, and shoot at the minimum focusing distance. There is no way for me to produce a portrait and a usable image of a hair in one image, so I shoot a series of images, zooming with my feet, moving closer with each image. There are times that my evidentiary photography calls for a much detail as reasonably possible, though hairs are not really my concern, so much as injuries, blood spatter, and fingerprints. Hairs are the job of the folks in the crime lab.

Photographing a twig on the ground would be accomplished in the same way; a series of images.

If I wanted to be really serious with this, I would research the longer macro lenses. I may well do so, after my finances improve in late 2013.

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Canon 7D/5D/40D/1D2N; Nikon F6, D700, FM3A, & Coolpix A; Canon 40mm 2.8 STM, 135L, 50L, 35L, pre-II 50mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L Macro, 10-22mm EF-S, 28-135 EF, 400mm 5.6L; Nikkor 50mm 1.2 AI-S, 50mm 1.4G, 50mm 1.8D, 16mm 2.8D Fisheye, 180mm 2.8D, 100-300mm 5.6 AI-S; Tokina 17mm & 100mm 2.8 Macro


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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:24 am
Posts: 1815
as I answered earlier in the thread:

You quoted a budget - $2000
You quoted Full Frame
You quoted a non pro body (?)
You quoted non pre 2011 technology (!)

There is one camera currently available = D600
There is one camera soon to be released = 6D

They are both around the $2000 mark - WITHOUT LENSES. I know the D600 well - I put 6000 frames on one in 1 week while reviewing and comparing to the D800 and my 2008 tech D700 (how did we ever manage with these old contraptions back in the Noughties????)


So you have no chance of any current camera meeting your requirements (especially if you actually want to mount a lens to take photographs!) However as you have no DSLR experience (but claim experience with a camera so presumably a point and shoot) how do you know what your requirements are?

So, to get back on track - you could find yourself a 2nd hand 5d Mk II or D700 if, and only if, you can live with 2008 (gasp) technology. You'll be able to get one of those fantastic cameras with a lens and you are within budget. 12MP is more than enough to pixel peep and measurebate, as long as you put good glass on the front of it

[deleted]

So jog on, buy whatever camera you want, take wonderfully detailed photographs so you can pixel peep to your hearts content, or print on your laser printer, but just remember that this is an online community as well as resource - it helps if you are willing to give a little as well.


Now - for the, drum roll, FOLLICLE CHALLENGE!

Here's a picture taken at f8 on a 12MP body

Image

And here is a crop for the final image:

Image

Now here's another shot, with the only lens you could afford within your $2000 budget IF you went back to 2008 tech with a D700 - a 50mm prime:

Image

And seeing as I'm such a kind chap, I'll even give you a link to download the original (which is a slight crop) for your measurebatory pleasure:

http://philpage.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v37/p277526802.jpgg

Zoom into his eyes and you'll see two portraits of me. Now is that enough detail for you?


Last edited by dubaiphil on Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm new to DSLR!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:22 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Alexandra, Central Otago, NZ
Phil is having a good day :D

I bet it's raining in Dubai.... :lol:

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Canon 550D, Canon EFS 17-85 IS USM, Canon EF 75-300 IS USM, Canon EFS 10-22mm USM, Canon EF35mm F2.

Got some of the gear but really still no idea...:)


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