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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:42 am 
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Hi folks,

Sony has been busy, having just announced the α99 full-framer, the NEX-6 plus new glass and, as widely rumoured in the last few days, a full frame 35mm fixed lens compact, the Cyber-shot® DSC-RX1.

The α99 will be welcomed by a few and a new NEX body will certainly find many takers but so far as the NEX system is concerned I think the biggie is the new glass. The 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 will help make the camera more pocketable (the lens is similar in size to the Lumix G X VARIO PZ 14-42mm). There is also a 35mm f/1.8 and, most significantly, the 10-18mm f/4.0 which fills a gaping hole in the E-system line-up.

As for the RX1, will this be the camera that Fuji wish they had made instead of the FinePix X100? And will Sony follow it up with an interchangeable lens version next year in the same way that Fuji went interchangeable with the X-Pro1? The writing is on the wall as the NEX-VG900 camcorder has an E-mount and a full-frame sensor behind it although I'd have to say that my memory of some of the E-system lens reviews I've read suggest to me that while edge performance may be good enough for video resolutions they might struggle in front of a 24MP full-frame sensor. But hey, with a bit of focus peaking and a Leica M-mount adaptor maybe a full-frame NEX stills camera doesn't need native glass? :lol:

Are you tempted by any of the new Sony kit?

Bob.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:04 am 
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Of the mirrorless landscape, the NEX bodies seem to be the one I like most, if it wasn't for the lack of decent lenses. So this does go some way to address this, assuming they are of adequate quality.

I see the RX1 as the "new X100" in what it represents. A camera that dares to push the limits of what's available. In itself significant, but what might follow after it is the one to really look at. Could it be the tester before a full frame compact mirrorless system?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:17 am 
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Most of what Sony has released is interesting stuff, especially the tiny ff camera. Which probably will evolve into something useful in time.
However from a practical and sensible point of view its only the Nex-6 that catches my eye, because it has a proper sensor and controls. These cameras though still fall short to the gorgeous Fuji XE-1 in my eyes because of its truly amazing sensor, competitive viewfinder and nice size. Next generation of these cameras, and maybe even a FF type sensor in the future will be killer.

I bet the camcorder is amazing, its low light capabilities will be awe inspiring.

It will be interesting to see how the a99 fares against the newest contenders from Canon and Nikon.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:52 am 
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While I haven't been following rumours elsewhere, the a99 might share sensor technology with the Nikon D600, and based on recent performance shouldn't be anything to worry about.

In case I've overlooked any, are there any mirrorless bodies out there other than NEX that do focus peeking? That is the single biggest USP for me looking at NEX.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:02 pm 
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What, no image stabilization on the RX1!
Or did I miss something?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:45 pm 
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α99 is UGLY!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:01 pm 
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The RX1 does not have image stabilization.

Popo - the first other mirrorless I've heard of that got onboard with peaking function for stills is the Oly OM-D. Pretty much all recent Sony models from Alpha to RX to NEX have it.

Lorride - what do you mean on the NEX6 having proper sensor and controls? Just curious, as the RX1 if anything seems to have even MORE proper and serious controls PLUS a full-frame sensor, and the A99 is about as chock full of individual controls, buttons, and programmability as is possible plus a full-frame sensor. Just wondering what your meaning was on that. As for the Fuji XE-1, the competitive viewfinder is actually the very same Sony OLED one used in the A77, NEX7, NEX5N, NEX6, A99, et al. And in fact the RX1 will have that same EVF as an addon option, along with the full frame sensor, mag body, and all manual controls. Agreed - the proof will all be in the pudding - how do these cameras perform and what's the IQ like?

Bob - on the NEX lens front, it might also be worth mentioning something fairly significant on those lenses...aside from the 'pancake' zoom everyone's been begging for, it's of some note that the 35mm F1.8 low light prime is also optically stabilized in-lens - stabilized fast primes are very rare beasts! And the ultrawide zoom is also stabilized - something many ultrawide Canon & Nikon DSLR shooters would love to have (we Sony DSLR and Pentax DSLR shooters have in-body stabilization, so have already enjoyed stabilized fast primes and ultrawides).

The A99 has some very interesting specs that hopefully will translate into real performance gains...the dual phase-detect AF system sounds like it could really be a leap in focus tracking, and a feature that should definitely be noted, the AF Range button that allows the user to set infinite near and far focus limits for the AF system, even with lenses that don't have focus limiters built in!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:47 pm 
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|zackiedawg, Lorride - what do you mean on the NEX6 having proper sensor and controls?|

(I compared the NEX6 to the NEX7 in my statement.)

Controls, Program wheel on the left side, not sure if I would buy a camera without that. Seems to have a wheel integrated into it as well, just under it. Also like the nex7 it has the control wheel on the back. This setup is much closer to what I am used to compared to a DSLR so I would favor it ;)

Proper sensor, I am not impressed by the 24Mp image sensor of the Nex-7. It does well 100-400ISO, but falls apart completely after that. The 16Mp does not, it is very good. And if you shoot a lot of images around 1600 ISO you will be thankful for that.

I know the Fuji uses the same viewfinder, hence competitive... which it now is, but was not before.

Did not really comment on any technicalities around the RX1 apart from thinking that that it will evolve into something useful. At the moment it is super expensive, and of course impressive in terms of what they have pressed into such a tiny body. However, at this price point unless you can "throw" money around you probably would want the camera to work in more than casual scenarios.
Just saw an image at DP comparing it size to the Fuji X100, holy crap it actually quite a bit smaller.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-c ... t-dsc-rx1/

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Gotcha. Was just looking for clarification, not challenging you.

While I agree with you on the 24MP sensor of the NEX7 vs the 16MP of the NEX-5N...I do a ton of low light shooting, and I favored the noise profile and detail retention, plus lower chroma noise output, on the 5N which is why I chose it. However, it's worth noting that the A99 and RX1 are not using the same APS-C 24Mp sensor - so there's potential for those two to be significantly better performing. I too would choose the NEX6 over the NEX7 as I do like the 16Mp APS-C sensor. The NEX7 has more control wheels, but for me too much work on the 24MP sensor (it may potentially match the 16MP overall in low light when processing from a RAW file and downsizing to match, but I just don't want to do all that work for my low light shots, when I can just take them right from the camera on the 5N with no work needed, even at ISO6400).

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Where did I give the impression that the a99 and RX1 uses the same APS-C 24Mp sensor as the Nex7 has? :D

I am sure the FF 24Mp will be lovely, about the same at the 5D MkIII if not better.

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Last edited by Lorride on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Hi zackiedawg,

If my OM-D E-M5 has focus peaking I haven't found out how to turn it on yet! :P

As for image stabilisation for primes, I can't help but put on my best smug git smile and point out that every prime I fit on my E-M5 is stabilised, even legacy glass. :lol:

The RX1 is a bold move, especially given its pricing, but I can't help wondering why, given the bulk of the 35mm prime, the body isn't more sculpted to provide a secure grip when carrying the camera around. I think of it as primarily a "street" camera, though maybe my imagination is a bit limited, and being able to hold the camera securely when it is not up to the eye would be a high priority. I certainly find that the optional grip for my E-M5 isn't optional at all as it only gets removed when I want to change/charge the battery. On the plus side, I'm not sure there will be that much of a need to stabilise the lens with its 35mm focal length for most situations, but maybe I'm still exhibiting a lack of imagination. :? But I reckon the RX1 will sell out pretty rapidly even at its exalted price point as I wouldn't expect Sony to have delivered anything less than a stellar performer but we'll have to wait for the reviews to come in...

Bob.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:05 am 
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Oh yeah - you're right - I mixed up the OM-D having it...it's actually Pentax that got on board with peaking, in their K01 mirrorless. So at least it's true that there is another mirrorless with peaking!

And I get the same smug grin with my A580 when I attach my fast primes, legacy lenses, ultrawides, etc and get stabilization too. It is a nice thing indeed.

But for those of us with a NEX, it is nice that they decided to put the OSS in these lenses, because without the body stabilization, it's pretty rare to get a stabilized fast prime.

As for the RX1 - hard to say...I can't say I'm the person they're marketing it to as I am not really much interested in one. But my guess is they are targeting other similar cameras - often fixed lens, high-build quality, fast 35mm cameras with pro rangefinder style controls and high prices...the Fuji X100 which has been a pretty big hit has no stabilization, nor do the Leica full-framers that cost as much as new cars. They probably figure if the pros haven't fussed over lack of stabilization in those cameras, they shouldn't have any problem with the lack of it in the RX1. Like I said...specialty limited market, but a bit of a 'trophy' product, just to show what they can do.

Lorride - You didn't make any inference on the full frame vs APS-C sensor - that was just me thinking via typing it out - just going through my thoughts on these cameras and announcements. Sorry for lumping it in there in my reply to you.

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Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 150-600mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony A6000 / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / 10-18mm F4 / 35mm F1.8 / 16mm F2.8 / via manual adapter, lots of Pentax K mount, Konica K/AR mount, and Leica M mount manual lenses

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:20 pm 
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I think all of these new products are very impressive indeed. However, I'd have liked to see the NEX-7's EVF in the RX-1 and would have preferred an optically stabilised lens.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Hi everyone, this is a great thread for comparing all the new launches, but I've also now added dedicated threads for each new camera - so if you have any specific comments about the individual models, please do them there!

Thanks,

Gordon


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:37 am 
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The RX1 certainly has my interest, but this will not necessarily translate into a wish to buy one. It is the concept, more than the camera itself, that is interesting to me.

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