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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:11 pm 
I'm not really in the habit of posting links to my attempts at photography but I snapped a few shots of some wild poppies, while visiting my mother, and was blown away by how reds scream out of the D80...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:07 pm 
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I assume pics are as they come out o fthe cam (apart from cropping)!?
What in camera options do you use (d-lighting, etc.) or have you everything on factory defaults?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:16 pm 
There's no post processing. The only settings I've changed in-camera are the colour mode to IIIa and Saturation Enhanced.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:28 pm 
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TelexStar wrote:
There's no post processing. The only settings I've changed in-camera are the colour mode to IIIa and Saturation Enhanced.


Aye I've noticed that too. Leaving the sat on enhanced isn't advisable for yellows though. Not good.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:30 pm 
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There you have it!
I wouldn't call it cheating :oops: but at least this gives the colors some boost.
But I'm also very satisfied with the colors of my D80, even at factory default!

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Last edited by Thomas on Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:50 pm 
zorro wrote:
Aye I've noticed that too. Leaving the sat on enhanced isn't advisable for yellows though. Not good.


Thanks for the tip. I'll probably tone down the setting.

tombomba2 wrote:
There you have it!
I wouldn't call it cheating :oops: but at least this gives the colors some boost.
But I'm also very satisfied with the colors of my D80, even at factory default!


Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? :)

I wouldn’t call it cheating either. The Saturation settings weren’t applied *after* the image was taken. They’re applied *as* the image is taken. To me, this is no different to altering any other setting to affect the image as it’s taken - exposure included.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Oh no, not sarcasm - just "tongue in cheek" :wink:
Well, well. I could wax philosophically about the differences between in camera adjustment and post-processing. But believe me: They don't exist. Only difference is, that Nikon limited the amount of tweaking whereas with post-processing you can go ballistic :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:12 pm 
I understand where you're coming from (I think) but are you saying that taking a picture with a camera at factory default settings is the only 'natural' way of taking a shot legitimately?

The way I see it, different cameras saturate at different levels. If the D80 (or any camera for that matter) with enhanced saturation produces the same levels in a shot as a camera of another make does with default settings, what's the difference?

'Post processing' is exactly that; alterations made to a shot after the shot has been captured. Any setting that helps the camera take a photo that represents the actual event is all good in my opinion. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Unless you're shooting in RAW in which case the line at which you start calling things "post-processing" is blurred. I mean, if I (or rather 'auto') get the White Balance wrong I can just correct it in RAW before conversion. That's not post-processing.

Zorro.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:30 pm 
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Yeah, right! And wrong!
I have a nice test for you: at normal daylight, look out of your window onto a normally lit scene with greens, greys, some blue/grey sky. Look 10 seconds at the scene with both eyes, then close one eye, then the other. Concentrate on the hue of the "middle" colors (not too saturated). Do you see a different hue with your right than with your left eye? I do!

So there is no representation of "actual" colors that you can judge with your eye. You have to use some serious calibrated measuring equipment to find out.

So I'd assume, that tweaking that does not lose color- or brightness-values can be assumed to be in the "natural" range, as you can always reverse the effect.
This is why all professionals advise you to look at the color graphs/curves of a shot, to make sure that no color is bleached out. And I think that this is the real deficit that some cameras have: not watching single colors (like red) being overexposed and therefore bleached out.

From my observations the D80 never overexposed a single color, so you always have the full color dynamic in the lighter portions of your pic. As to the shadows, I'm not so sure...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:35 pm 
zorro wrote:
Unless you're shooting in RAW in which case the line at which you start calling things "post-processing" is blurred. I mean, if I (or rather 'auto') get the White Balance wrong I can just correct it in RAW before conversion. That's not post-processing.

Zorro.


Indeed.

Similarly, one could argue that everything a camera's firmware does after the sensor captures the image (when not shooting in RAW) is 'post processing'.

The fact that you're altering a particular parameter that a camera uses to convert the data from the sensor to the memory card is irrelevant.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:38 pm 
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Well I can't try 'the test' at the moment but I'm reasonably happy that my eyes are seeing it real. It's irrelavent anyway. I want the shot how I want it to look, irrespective of the scientific measurements. Maybe that's why some of my photos at the likes of Caedes get high ratings when I don't actually think they're that great. And vice versa.

I have an idea of how the image should look that may well be at odds with what the electronics tell me is correct. So for landscapes I just leave WB on auto in the knowledge that if it is wrong, I can change it later. It won't be far out.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:40 pm 
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TelexStar wrote:
zorro wrote:
Unless you're shooting in RAW in which case the line at which you start calling things "post-processing" is blurred. I mean, if I (or rather 'auto') get the White Balance wrong I can just correct it in RAW before conversion. That's not post-processing.

Zorro.


Indeed.

Similarly, one could argue that everything a camera's firmware does after the sensor captures the image (when not shooting in RAW) is 'post processing'.

The fact that you're altering a particular parameter that a camera uses to convert the data from the sensor to the memory card is irrelevant.


Exactly! The way I see it as long as you're shooting in RAW then you're merely lengthening the picture taking process. In some ways it allows you more time to think because anything you do have to change later will not be to the detriment of the original image information.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:50 pm 
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I agree with the aspect of "the picture should look like I wanted it to". That is why I use RAW, let everthing in the camera untouched and just bother to get a decent exposure. Everything else can be adjusted afterwards...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:40 pm 
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I'll admit I'm a purist when it comes to recording a scene 'faithfully', but I will say this: when showing photos to friends and family, the ones which have the saturation and sharpness turned-up inevitably get the biggest positive reaction!

For me it's really down to photography the science versus photography the art. If I'm doing the former and want to record what 'it was really like', then I'll go for as natural and authentic processing as possible. If however I think the scene would look better with more vibrant colours - or say, in black and white - then I'll go for that and not worry.

It's the same with paintings. There's merit to both 'photo-realistic' and what are clearly abstract or impressionistic approaches. They're just different techniques and goals.

I guess it's just that because cameras are technically capable of faithfully recording a scene that many of us approach obvious image tweaking with suspicion. There's also undeniably greater bragging rights in phootgraphic circles for those who've managed to record amazing light and colour with the minimum tweaking. ("it really DID look like that!")

For the record while those flowers looked to me like the saturation had been turned up, I still liked the end result.

On a less serious note, I wonder if Panasonic and Sony are trying to blur the lines between art and science with their latest 'watercolour' noise reduction strategies!

Gordon


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