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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Hi folks,

In anticipation of having a day at a dog show at Windsor tomorrow (a friend is showing) I wondered what kit to take. As some may remember I recently sold my Canon gear but I kept my Lowepro Toploader TLZ 2 case. That conveniently fits on my belt but it was barely big enough to take my old 5D Mark II fitted with the EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM lens.

Now that I've downsized to an Olympus OM-D E-M5 that same bag takes my E-M5 plus LEICA D VARIO-ELMAR 14-150mm/ F3.5-5.6 ASPH./ MEGA O.I.S., my Lumix G Vario 7-14mm f/4 ASPH sits below that, my M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ (weather-sealed kit lens) fits beside the "Leica" lens and my LUMIX G X VARIO PZ 14-42mm / F3.5-5.6 ASPH. / POWER O.I.S. is so small it handily fits in the front pouch together with my puffer. And there's still room for more... :!:

So, in full-frame terms, I've got continuous coverage of fields of view from an equivalent of 14mm right up to 300mm together with a 24-100mm option if I need to shoot in the rain, all in a space which previously struggled to take my 5D2 plus a 70-200mm lens. OK, I won't get the ultimate quality of the 5D2 IQ but the E-M5 is pretty darn good and I've got all the lens options covered except a fast prime for low light (yet to be bought).

Dinosaurs had to give way to the smaller and nimbler mammals way back. They might have been better when it came to noisy walking but that wasn't enough to ensure survival. You can guess that I think DSLRs are at a similar evolutionary dead end: bigger, heavier, noisier and eat more grass. :lol:

Am I wrong or am I right? :P

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:05 pm 
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I think you are probably going to be correct ..... in the long term, but as everything else, it's personal choice I guess.
I mean I know the `Smart` car will get you to where you want to go, but personally i'd rather be in a Range Rover.

"OK, I won't get the ultimate quality of the 5D2 IQ" I guess again, it's personal choice. Quality, over new-fangled convenience :lol: (+ swapping lenses isn'y always that convenient.)
I'm not knocking your choice at all, Bob, in fact it's probably a very good move, but isn't the prime goal to get the best quality shot possible?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Well, as a Porsche owner I can hardly fault your choice of car! :lol:

If ultimate quality were paramount then maybe even a full-framer wouldn't cut it. One observation I should have included in my original post: despite having used my E-M5 for quite a while now this is the first time I've tried the kit with the Lowepro bag and I was truly surprised how much it can carry. No, I'll rephrase: I was shocked!!!

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Like all these things, it will always come down to what you want to do, and what is "good enough".

For my personal needs, great continuous/tracking AF is a must, and I'm not aware of a non-SLR/SLT that can give that yet. The Nikon 1 is the closest yet, and reports are in good light it is as good at AF as a SLR. That's nearly half way there. Now get me the same AF when light is barely enough for exposure without motion blur. If I gave up this condition, then any of the existing mirrorless systems would be viable.

Then there's the other group, the shallow DOFers. If you need it, the sweet spot does seem to lie with full frame bodies. Ok, the Leica is technically a mirrorless and offers that too, but it is rather niche.

Now having said that, do either of those two necessarily require a mirror or large body? Nope. I'd twist the question around a bit. Not so much do we need a mirror, but when wont we need a mirror at all? In the very long term I can see them going away, but there is a long way to go yet. Even then, I could see SLRs going the way of medium format. A niche for the high end, but never going away. For those that need the capabilities of a heavy hitter, they'll still be around, but could also be supplemented by smaller systems as required for when it isn't.

And we also can't rule out game-changing technologies coming in the future which might render our current understanding of photography obsolete. e.g. perhaps in some decades we'd be arguing about how the old "lens" technology will die as some kind of light ray detection technology (beyond current plenoptic technology) obsoletes it.

To finish off, if we draw a comparison of SLRs to dinosaurs, what would a mirrorless camera be? I'd suggest it'll still be like current mega-fauna, and the current trend for a lot of those is also not so good, with yet smaller creatures better able to adapt and survive. The camera phone will rule them all!

How about another parallel? Are desktop computers dead? Nope, but they're on the decline in any number you care to measure by. Laptops took the first bite. Tablets attacked next. But there will still be a need for desktops regardless.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:59 pm 
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I think the game changer with C-AF will be maturation of phase-detect sensing as part of the main sensor. It is early days yet though. Fortunately C-AF isn't a priority for me which meant that CSCs were/are an option.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:38 pm 
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DSLRs might be extinct in a long while, but for me the mirrorless and 4/3 cameras still have a long way to go before I consider one as a main camera (and I can't afford to spend 1000$+ for a 2nd camera + lenses).

Actually, I find that the DSLRs still have a bit of maturing left in them before they get to where I'd like to see them (ISO 200k+ clean images, 24-30 fps 100 mp+ raw images, fast accurate autofocus that can keep up with that fps). When they get to that point, I will wait for the mirrorless and 4/3 cameras to catch up, and call it a day. Until that day, I will keep drooling over every new DSLR that comes out that's outside my budget.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Hi Jean-Pierre,

So far as you wishlist is concerned while I might wish for the same it is my definite sense that we'll see a real Starship Enterprise first. :(

When one looks at the current quantum efficiency of a camera sensor there just isn't that much improvement possible and that's not even getting into the complexities of photon counting statistics and the attendant image noise implications.

I enjoyed my time with DSLRs but I found it necessary to also own a compact (PowerShot G10) for the many situations where a DSLR plus glass was too big. The G10 is never needed now and will eventually be sold.

It's inevitable that this thread will rehearse a lot of the CSC vs. DSLR arguments but my reason for starting the conversation was to share my genuine surprise at how much smaller my current kit is. You'd think I'd have known by now but it seems what passes for my brain finds it really difficult to shuck off so many years of dinosaur abuse. :twisted:

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:13 pm 
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For some applications, sure, you're definitely right.

But my friends beg to differ on a few more demanding applications...
Image

;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:26 pm 
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I see DSLRs as having reached a certain level of maturity, but still very applicable for some types of shooting, whereas compact system cameras are still evolving. I really like the Fuji X Pro-1, and may well purchase one in 2013 or 2014, but do not see the Fuji X cameras as ready to assume the roles of action and wildlife photography, especially if low light is added to the equation.

I keep trying to like the Nikon 1 V1, as it can use Nikkor SLR lenses, and has quite good AF ability, but the V1 plus an FT1 adapter costs more than some Nikon DSLR cameras, within the general price range of a D7000! The V1 may be quite nice, but it is not THAT nice.

If compactness is important, well, I recently purchased a Canon EF 40mm "pancake" lens, what some call the Shorty Forty. Yesterday, I purchased a Think Tank "Body Bag," which is meant to carry a DSLR camera body on a belt. This bag holds my 5D, with the 40mm lens mounted, very comfortably and compactly. There is room on each side for spare batteries and filters. Of course, this is just one lens, but this one bag is quite small. The load could be balanced by a second small bag with another lens or two.

Perhaps, the new Olympus OM-D is an indication that a compact system camera is ready to challenge
the DSLR in a range of shooting tasks. I certainly will not argue with anyone who is happy with his/her
OM-D system. I find it quite interesting, as I had seriously considered Olympus E-3 and E-5 DSLRs, and the excllent line of Four-Thirds lenses, a couple of years ago.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:01 am 
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I agree that the Fuji does seem interesting, and I'm very much looking forward to what they'll come up with in the next few years, but definitely too early for me to consider ditching my t2i for one.

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Lenses: Tamron: SP 24-70mm F/2.8 Di VC USD, SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Rokinon: 8mm Fisheye cine, Canon: EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens, 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III, and EF 50mm f/1.8 II
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:48 pm 
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I was wondering, if a DSLR is a dinosaur, what is a digital Leica M-camera? :wink: I reckon there are smaller dinosaurs, too. The new Monochrom has my attention, though it will be a while before I am within financial reach of such a creature, and my aging eyes may relegate me to zone-focusing. I wonder if Fuji might see a market for a X Pro Monochrome?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:57 pm 
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having both a larger camera and small camera is a good idea.... like my plan.. I use my Canon gear for my company, to professional shoots of places and people.

and for my free time and street photography, I choose to use a small an discrete camera, such as the Leica M8 with one lens :p

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