Camera Labs

I recently had a 60D that I loved, except for the moire that showed up every now and then in video. But the photos were superb (even with the kit 18-200mm lens). I ended sending it back because of the moire problem, and getting a Panasonic GH2, which is a good camera, but now that I can test it myself rather than see tons of Vimeo videos, I still prefer the 60D picture quality for videos (minus the moire of course) and the photos are far better in the Canon.

So I'm thinking about sending the GH2 back and buying the Canon 60D again, but I just saw the press release for the Rebel T4i, which has a lot of attractive features for me, such as on-board stereo mic, new lens with silent AF (although most of the time I shoot video on the 60D I was using manual focus anyway) and other features that are designed for video, but what matters to me the most is the final picture quality, and I know that the Rebel line is rather entry level compared to the 60D.

Also, the Rebel T4i doesn't come with a 18-200mm kit lens, and while most people will advice to get the body only and buy better lens, I was perfectly happy with that lens, and I don't have loads of cash to spend over a thousand dollars in better lens. So that's something to consider as well.

But how far apart are they in terms of picture quality? I know the Rebel T4i is not out yet, but at least comparing the Rebel T3i to the 60D, especially in low light? I took great pictures with the 60D in low light without flash, which are impossible with the GH2. And what about video quality?
Thanks,

Sebastian

Er, Im starting to think that this is a giant joke, but okay. The T4i will have the same IQ as the 60D, perhaps even better. Why? Because the sensor is newer.
The T4i should also be better for videography than the 60D, so if video is a must, go for the 650D. And if you wait for a few weeks, months, the 650D will be cheaper than the 60D also, and not to forget: you need one of the two special designed lenses for the T4i to have that special AF.

Though, to be sure: What do you not like about the GH2's IQ? The lens coupled with the camera should be sharper than the 60D's 18-200 IS and it's able to produce stunning pictures, but maybe not with the standard JPEG settings (as sharpening, contrast etc.).
And as far as I know Id prefer the GH2 over a common DSLR all time, one of the reasons being to film trough the viewfinder.

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

The GH2 is actually a great camera, and if I had plenty of money, I'd probably keep both of them. Obviously the GH2 was engineered with video in mind, while the 60D hasn't, but the 60D has better picture quality for photos, and for video it may not have the crispness of the GH2, but the quality overall is more cinematic. The GH2 looks good, but it has a PQ that is half-way between a DSLR and a camcorder. I really dislike the way it handles greens, like grass or leaves.

Added to that, it is much easier to blur the background with the 60D than with the GH2, with the kit lens, and there's no M43 lenses as cheap as the Canon 50mm/f1.8 that sells for $120. Something comparable for the GH2 starts at three times that price, and other lenses are very expensive as well. Meaning that to achieve the same blurred background I can easily get with a $120 lens on the 60D would cost me much more on the GH2.

The other thing is the ergonomics. I just love the way the 60D feels in my hands. It's heavy but not too much, and it was really comfortable to hold and operate. The zoom in that 18-200mm kit lens is much smoother than the kit lens on the GH2. And that is kind of the problem I have as well in deciding to get the 60D now or wait for the Rebel T4i, because the Rebels are smaller. Not a big deal, the other reasons are more important, but since I sent back the 60D I've been missing it a lot.

Oh, also the buffer is much larger (or efficient, I don't know for sure) on the 60D. The burst mode in that camera kept shooting for as long as I pressed the shutter, as long as I was using jpegs, which looked really good anyway. This was on different cards, from class 10 down to 4. Even in RAW mode, it didn't go on forever, but it gave me several photos. The GH2 gets clogged up really fast even in JPEG mode with the class 10 card.

Panasonic is famous about its greens on their cameras, you can change that easily though. You are right about the lenses though, but keep in mind most of them are more expensive but sharper too.

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

How?

Presumably by changing the white balance and/or the colour settings.

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Bodies: Canon EOS 550D w/ Magic Lantern
Lenses: Tokina AT-X 116 Pro DX f/2.8, Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II, Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
Accessories: YongNuo Speedlite YN-468 Flash, Neewer Macro LED Ring Light, Meike Battery Grip, YongNuo RF-602 Wireless Flash Trigger & Receiver YongNuo WR-128 Wireless Remote Control

I played with the four way slider to fine tune white balance, but still, the greens look weird in the GH2. I was playing footage from the 60D that I took in my yard, and the colors look perfect, very true to life and very cinematic. When the 60D doesn't show moire, the colors are beautiful. And yes, the GH2 is more crisp, but the colors are not that great, especially when it comes to trees, grass, leaves, etc. Fine tuning the WB helps a bit but not too much. There's only so much you can move into magenta without the whole picture looking pinkish.

The other thing that bugs me about the GH2 is that the LCD doesn't show the same colors that you will see in the recording. This is exactly the same problem I saw in a Sony I had and returned, I can't remember the model but it was a high end consumer model. Basically the reds are exaggerated and in a different hue. With the Canon, the colors I saw on the LCD were the same colors that I saw when I played back the footage on my TV set.

The GH2 may have many advantages over the 60D, however, at the end of the day, what matters to me the most is how good the footage looks, and that is not only a matter of sharpness but also how good the colors are, so I choose the 60D even if it has some shortcomings over the GH2.

But what I'd really like to know is if the Rebel T4i or 650D, a newer but still entry level DSLR, can match the picture quality in both video and stills, of the 60D, especially in low light. I don't care much if the new kit lens has silent AF because my intent with this camera is to do some artistic work in which I would use MF all the time. The stereo mic in the new model is nice, however, for anything that is outdoor shooting you need an external mic anyway to be able to use a fur on it, so it's a small advantage in practice.

You should look at the Image parameters menu.
Here's what I mean on another Luix, roughly halfway the page: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panas ... lens.shtml

If those sliders dont help there must be another function (yes, I have several Lumix cameras that have this function), dont know which by heart to be fair though.

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

Erm... no. You need one of those lenses if you want silent and smooth focusing, which ist nice for videos, but the new sensor AF also works with "normal lenses" - just louder and less smooth.

If I had to choose between GH2, 60D and 650D, I'd take the 650D.

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Canon EOS 500D + Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Canon EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466

Oh, excuse me and thanks for noting my mistake, Jiko! Didnt know that, although it's quite logical...

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

I would take 60D, because - faster frame rate, faster sync speed, lcd on top, thumb wheel, faster shutter speed (1/8000 is max i think )

i do believe 650 also has all cross type af points, so there is no difference in that.

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I'm new to DSLR's, so please be patient and take my opinions with reserve. Thank you : ) Yes, i am Canon man.
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Canon 60D + 15-85mm f3.5-5.6 IS, Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II, Canon 430EXII, polarizing filter 72mm,
Canon AT-1, 50mm FD F1.8
Canon A430,

For video quality, there is very little difference from the T2i all the way to the 5dIII.

For low-light performance, the 5dII and 5dIII will be better, then the 650d/t4i will most probably come in 2nd place. That new sensor and processor seems very impressive from the samples of pre-production models I've looked at so far. The 550d/600d/60d/7d all do very decent in low-light, but I wouldn't be surprised if the t4i will beat them.

I would recommend the 18-135mm STM lens which should be quiet enough that the camera won't pick up the focusing. You'll also gain some auto-focusing in video.

But if going for the T4i, I would wait at least 2 months for people to receive them and start doing real-world tests before buying one, to make sure the advantages it has on paper actually perform well.

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Cameras: Canon EOS Rebel T2i, Canon S90
Lenses: Tamron: SP70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon: EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens, 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III, and EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Retired camera: Fujifilm Finepix s700

I don't understand why this matters. Even if the IQ is the same, you said you prefer the handling of the 60D, you won't make much use of the T4i's new video AF, you will need an external mic (with wind filter) (so the T4i's internal stereo mic isn't a big plus), and are on a budget (so the 60D kit is more economical than the T4i's body price of $850 + $550 for your preferred 18-200mm lens).

Clear cut verdict for the 60D - Mark

P.S. Having said that, I'd note that it's much easier to compensate for a known and consistent issue (i.e. Panasonic's green tint) than it is to compensate for an unknown and inconsistent issue (i.e. moire, which you won't know is present until you're in post).