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 Post subject: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 861
Location: Surrey, UK
Hey guys,

This is my first post in a few months since I have been very busy recently with exams. Quick update, my photography business has been booming. We have expanded into the surrounding areas and cover all of Surrey now :D I primarily shoot in studio conditions although am doing a lot video work filming plays and concerts as well as portrait work outdoors.

I am still using the 550d which has been a GREAT camera. Although I know feel it is time for a serious upgrade. In the studio it manages well enough although in low light conditions when high ISO is required the results are no longer good enough. I have always wanted to move to a full frame camera and more specifically a 5D. So it's between the 5D mk2 and mk 3. Both are great cameras and both have positives and negatives. The ISO performance, improved video features and overall better quality images make this my ideal camera. Although the price of this camera is a ridiculous £3K :( I don't see this price dropping much within the next year so I don't think it's worthwhile waiting especially since I need the improved quality to advance in business. My other option is the mk2 which can now be picked up for an incredible £1.5K! Obviously this is still a great camera but is the mk3 a lot better? The mk2 was always great at high ISO but is the mk3 a lot better? The improved fps is not a big deal either since I plan on purchasing a 7d mk2 when that comes out (hopefully soon!) to deal with sports and wildlife photography.

At this point in time I have two 'packages' I could buy:

5D mk3 - £3000
5D mk2 + 70-200mm 2.8 IS II - £3500

Buying the 5D mk2 would allow me to buy my dream portrait lens. Although if the mk3 is worth the extra money I would prefer to buy that and then wait a few months for the 70-200mm.

On another note with my business increasing by the day I would like to get a qualification. Since I am young I feel a qualification would allow me to seal the deal with customers who are put off by age. I am looking at the newer online courses which you can do in your own time. Does anyone have any suggestions of courses? I found this one:

http://www.thephotographyinstitute.co.u ... tAodiF8HrQ

At the end of the course you receive a Diploma. This is a reasonably high qualification and I think it would be enough to satisfy the customers :D Although if anyone can recommend any courses that gain you a higher qualification that would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks,

James

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Hi James,

I really shouldn't be offering advice since I've never sold a photo in my life but what the heck...

If, and only you can answer this, the 5D2 IQ and video is good enough (there are plenty of sample images out there) then why waste money on the latest body and deny yourself use of a lens which offers you options you may not otherwise have? The lens will also hold it's value and if the business does well you'll be able to buy a 5D3/4 and keep the 5D2 as a second body.

Just my tuppence worth but if the business doesn't require a 5D3 then buying one may not be the best way to progress.

Bob.

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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 12:48 pm
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Location: UK
The 5D3 sensor doesn't appear to be radically different from the 5D2. If you're moving up from a 550D, I don't think the 5D2's functionality will disappoint, even if the 5D3 has more features. Assuming that is the case the 5D2 can get you more of a boost initially and you can continue to grow the business and get the 5D3 or 7D2 in due course.

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Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 861
Location: Surrey, UK
Thanks for the replies guys. I think the 5d mk2 offers very good value and the mk3 not so much. I am leaning towards the mk2 because it will allow me to get the 70-200mm. On another note if I buy through DigitalRev which seems to be cheeper will I have to pay any import taxes?

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:03 am
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Location: Paris, London
re: Photography Institute Course. I looked at their site. I cannot read anywhere that the qualification is actually an officially recognised diploma. It seems to me it is something that they have called a diploma, whic is not supported or recognised by the UK. So essentially you will pay 500 pounds for some guy to send you a diploma that he put together in word.

It would have been more interesting if you were taught by a magnum photographer. But is seems that all you do is follow an online course and exchange email with a virtual tutor of some kind. That said, I did look at the course breakdown, it seems pretty comprehenive, though nothing you could not pull direct off the interenet for free.

I just did a quick search before posting this, it seems some people think it is a bit of a scam. The price was 400 pounds just a few months ago.

If you want to do an officailly recognised qualification based on your work, check out http://www.bipp.com/

Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 861
Location: Surrey, UK
Thanks for looking into it for me. I did send them a quick email yesterday and they replied saying it was a higher level diploma which I found out is recognised by the government. I did find one really in depth review which seemed quite positive although it said nothing about the end qualification:

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/ephot ... urse-13819

Although I will have a look at some of the other reviews around. The link you posted looks good but I can't seem to find a course they are offering. Arent they just the organisation and then you go through another company to gain the award?

In terms of price £500 is okay. We budgeted £1000 for each of our four photographers to go gain a qualification. Any money left over will be an added bonus that will get spent on equipment :D

Many thanks,

James

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 861
Location: Surrey, UK
Here's a section of the email I received from them. What do you think?

The diploma course in professional photography is what we specialise in. It is the most in-depth online diploma course that you will find anywhere on the internet, covering all aspects of photography.

We are recognised worldwide as an online education provider and we are registered with the UKRLP (United Kingdom Register of Learning Providers). We have our own set of standards that must be met in order to receive your Diploma in Professional Photography. It is dependant on the school as to whether they have diplomas of different levels where the student can progress through the stages. We only have the one high level of diploma that we offer, Diploma of Professional Photography.

We have over 10,000 students enrolled in our program not only from the United Kingdom but over 30 different countries including the US, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa to name just a few

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:22 pm
Posts: 498
Location: 1 AU from the nearest star
My thoughts is if you believe you can get your money's worth out of the course, then go for it.
However, I would advise taking potential customer's out of this equation.
Getting any additional customers is not a guarantee from completing this course work.
Also, the better you are, the more word of mouth references you can use.
While being young may be a deterrent at first, people will recognize quality or hear from their friends about quality work.
A diploma is not, in and of itself, guaranteed to give people what they want.

Sample images or testimonials from previous customers, if done honestly, carry more weight than a piece of paper.

So in summary:
Do you think that going through this will improve the quality of your photographs you take?
Would the increase, if any, in quality to your photography style justify the expense of this course work?

_________________
Canon 5DIII, Rebel XTi/400D
Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II, 24-105mm f/4L, 50mm f/1.4, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DO, 85mm f/1.8
Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX Macro

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon 430EX II
Opteka 13mm, 21mm, and 31mm extension tubes
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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am
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Location: Surrey, UK
Thanks for the comment. Word of mouth and testimonials have been a significant source of bookings for us. That helped us to expand and create a network throughout Surrey. However when trying to get new customers who have no connections with anybody we have dealt with in the past age has been a huge deterant.

One customer even made up an excuse about how much power our equipment used meant it might blow the venue out, stop the dj and ruin the party. This came in the email straight after telling him our ages :D

It's not that a diploma will necessarily improve our skills, I'm sure we will learn something, it's more that people see it as a standard that we are at and it would make the more confident that we know what we are doing. We have shown these people the large number of testimonials we have, but for some reason that is not enough :)

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:22 pm
Posts: 498
Location: 1 AU from the nearest star
For some strange reason, call it pessimism or whatever, from what you describe I highly doubt that you will ever get those contracts regardless if you get a diploma or anything else you do.

And even if you managed to talk them into it, they probably would not be happy with what you did regardless of how well it turned out.
Some people get something in their head and will not let anything deter them; especially facts.

So my thinking is if you have a successful business, then concentrate on what is making you money and improve that.
Focus on your strengths.

On the flip side, I would also advise treating every customer with respect, and maybe even refer those who are put off by your age to a friendly competitor. (Ensure this competitor will not bad mouth you)
If you show that you care more about their event than you do getting their business, people will at least remember you fondly.
Who knows, maybe they will have something that is not as critical come up and give you a shot later on to allow you to prove yourself to them.

Those are my thoughts on this matter.
Whatever you do though, as long as you are enjoying what you are doing, and making a decent living, then you are already ahead on success.

_________________
Canon 5DIII, Rebel XTi/400D
Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II, 24-105mm f/4L, 50mm f/1.4, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DO, 85mm f/1.8
Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX Macro

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon 430EX II
Opteka 13mm, 21mm, and 31mm extension tubes
Vivitar 50mm f/1.8 for OM System


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 861
Location: Surrey, UK
Thanks BlueDragon! Every customer is treat with respect and I did in fact refer this particular person to another photographer that we have links with in the local area. Whilst this does annoy me that we are not getting the deal I would prefer not to create a bad name for us.

I am thinking of a more specialised course that focuses on portrait photography. Whilst this will not provide a qualification I am sure we would learn a lot would in fact improve our photography. I'm also thinking about upgrading the main studio lights we use and purchasing a light meter to improve the quality of images possible. I am not particularly happy with the soft box and would prefer something a little larger as well as more powerful lights.

Many thanks

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:22 pm
Posts: 498
Location: 1 AU from the nearest star
From what you stated, both of those options would seem to have a positive impact on the quality of your business. That is probably a less expensive alternative.

Also, a good book on business I read recently was Dave Ramsey's EntreLeadership: 20 Years of Practical Business Wisdom from the Trenches.

_________________
Canon 5DIII, Rebel XTi/400D
Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II, 24-105mm f/4L, 50mm f/1.4, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DO, 85mm f/1.8
Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX Macro

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon 430EX II
Opteka 13mm, 21mm, and 31mm extension tubes
Vivitar 50mm f/1.8 for OM System


Last edited by BleuDragon on Tue May 22, 2012 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am
Posts: 861
Location: Surrey, UK
Thanks BlueDragon I was considering buying a book on business so will definitely check this one out!

As for the courses I have had a look around and a specialised course in portrait photography seems VERY expensive. Not sure it would be feasible for all of the photographers. I will continue searching and report back on the findings.

I was also wondering if someone could confirm my previous question about DigitalRev. They are selling the mk2 for £1350 and the mk3 for £2500 which is some very worthwhile savings. Would I have to pay some sort of import tax on this and are they a reliable seller?

Many thanks,

James

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:23 am 
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Posts: 861
Location: Surrey, UK
DigitalRev's ebay store seems even cheaper :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-5D- ... 783wt_1156

5d mk3 + extra battery + accessories kit = £2333

_________________
Camera: Canon 550D with battery grip
Lenses: Canon 24-105mm f/4L, Canon 50mm f1.4, Canon 18-55mm, Tamron 70-300mm,
Accessories: Manfrotto 055XPROB with 808RC4 head, Canon 430ex II speedlite, Lowepro Nova 180AW and Lowepro Pro Runner 450AW


Oh that is so lame, every hot girl who can aim a camera thinks she’s a photographer -Stewie Griffin


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 Post subject: Re: 5d mk2 vs mk3
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Location: Speyer (Germany)
"96.7% Positive Feedback" doesn't sound excellent. The negative feedback was mostly stuff that was delivered late and extra costs that weren't mentioned.

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Canon EOS 500D + Canon EOS 5D Mark III + Canon EOS 33v
Canon EF 28-80mm 3.5-5.6 USM + EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 50mm 1.8 II + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466


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