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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:50 am 
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Hi folks,

If you'd suggested to me last year that I'd reach my 9,000th post (this one) and not own a DSLR I'd have thought you mad but that's where I am. The EOS 5D Mark II is now sold!

Where do I go from here? Well, if an absolute miracle were to happen and Canon announced a CSC (mirrorless camera) then I'd be sitting pretty as they would almost certainly provide back compatibility with EF lenses in addition to a more compact dedicated lens system. If they just announce a 5D Mark III or 5D Mark X then I doubt I could be tempted as the 5D2 had plenty of high quality pixels and was sold not because I wanted more or better pixels but because I found myself less and less motivated to carry it around with me.

So, if no CSC from Canon things get complicated. Until I definitely make a decision to jump ship I'll keep my Canon glass as lack of a CSC announcement now doesn't mean that one wouldn't be forthcoming later in the year and, as things stand, there's no CSC out there that really floats my boat when I look at the available lenses. If necessary and as a stopgap I may, depending on the results from Gordon's review, opt for a PowerShot G1 X. It doesn't offer the ultra-wide FoV I'd like but it is pocket-able and with it I may even be able to hold out until next year to get the right CSC.

Anyone else in the same boat or contemplating a similar desertion?

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:32 pm 
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No intention of ditching DSLRs here any time in the foreseeable future. I only got the 5D2 at the end of last year, and wouldn't rule out further body updates as and when they happen. Also I'll probably make a couple more major* lens purchases this year at least. (I'll define major as a 4 figure price tag...)

My biggest problem of the "mirrorless" systems is they promise a lot but it isn't what I want! My priority is long reach and good continuous tracking AF. Neither area is well covered by mirrorless systems yet. Small and light is on my wish list too, but it is way down on the priority list.

I guess if I never got into wildlife photography, and I was starting again from nothing, then the microFourThirds system makes good overall sense. But I must use the right tool for the job. Mirrorless isn't that tool, so is largely worthless to me. Actually that matches the current street value of my E-P1.

Of course I'm not burying my head in the sand. *if* there comes along a camera system that does beat a SLR in every single way, I would of course consider it. But we are still a very very long way away from that.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:28 pm 
I haven't ditched the DSLR yet but I shoot a lot more film now. I'd love to get a micro 4/3rd's but until get rid of the DSLR for money that won't happen.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:20 pm 
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I have a mirror-less camera, its my 5DMkii with mirror lock up active :-)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:51 pm 
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It will be interesting to see where cameras go in the next few years but right now I still think the DSLR is the right choice.

Just out of interest why did you sell your camera before you decided your next purchase? Do you have another camera you can use at the moment? :D

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Hi James,

The timing seemed right to sell but if I had an upcoming trip demanding the best possible IQ I would have hung on. As it is my PowerShot G10 will have to do for now. Using it is demanding as there's noticeably less latitude during post-processing and high ISO is a bit of a no-no except for small final images. But I am hoping to hit Las Vegas later in the year and by then I will definitely need more even if that more is not my dream CSC.

Letting the 5D2 go was certainly a wrench but I think the camera market is at a tipping point. I may be wrong but I think the future for enthusiast cameras could well be APS-C sized sensors with 14 bit A/D conversion, hopefully with full well capacities to match, in mirrorless bodies. Such bodies have the potential to support not only relatively compact lenses but also fast, as in f/2 or brighter, glass for situations where extremely shallow DoF or low light ability is key. The only show stopper is whether there will be sufficient demand for such bright glass and that requires us, the end users, to be able to step away from simplistic mantras such as "bigger sensors are needed to get really shallow DoF", a subject I explored here.

This all may never happen and if CSCs can't replicate the AF speeds of conventional DSLRs there'll certainly still be a market for DSLRs. But, for me, the desire to move on to something more compact is the major motivation and my ponderings on APS-C CSCs plus fast glass which approach current full-framer quality may be pure rationalisation. Fortunately I have no particular need for really fast glass now and ultra-wide FoV CSC lenses are bound to turn up before too long!

Bob.

Edit: I now realise (thanks, popo) that 14 bit conversion is pretty much the norm these days!

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Bob, the timing of your body sale might be better than you think. Canonrumors have rated highly a rumour of the next 5D announcement next week.

I haven't looked closely at the G1 X but I do recall suggestion in tests it performs comparably to the 7D/60D/600D/550D sensor shrunken a bit. That was actually a bit of bad news for me, as I was hoping it could be a sign of the next generation sensor, as opposed to yet another iteration of current technology.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Hi popo,

I think it will be disappointing if the G1 X performs that poorly with 14 bit A/D plus DIGIC 5. :P But that's why I'm looking forward so keenly to Gordons review. I can't see the G1 X ever being my only camera but, like the Fuji X-Pro1, it may well be a bellwether for what's to come!

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:45 pm 
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The G1 X sensor performance claim was based on DxOMark scores, where it is slightly behind the 7D. But I think that can simply be accounted for by the difference in sensor size. 14 bit conversion isn't anything new in Canonland, think that's been standard since as long as I can remember. The new Digic only deals with what comes out afterwards, where apparently the jpeg quality has gone up, that's not going to be of benefit if you shoot raw.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:03 am 
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Hi popo,

The situation regarding DIGIC 5 may be less clear. Canon suggest that the "DIGIC 5 processor uses approximately four times as much information as before to resolve one pixel, with the aforementioned six times faster processing speed". There's an implication there that this isn't just limited to JPEGs and also has something to do with de-Bayering but, for what seems like the umpteenth time, I'll state again that I'm not prejudging this and I'll wait for Gordon's verdict. Thanks for the heads up on 14 bit conversion. It is more common than I remembered but that's a good thing.

I'm afraid I've rather lost interest in the DxOMark scores. I'm interested in pixel quality and my poor brain easily gets confused by what DxO are actually offering with some of their output.

Bottom line, and this goes back to my opening post, is that I think I'm done with DSLRs now. If the 5D3/X specs mentioned on Canon Rumors are correct that $3500 price tag doesn't look like any sort of bargain for a camera that is so much bigger and heavier than I find I want these days. Very much a personal point of view but that's where I am.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Since you're keeping all the lenses for now, have you thought about getting a smaller DSLR? Like a 1100D? If the lenses are the size issue, then mirrorless doesn't really help.

I personally don't see much difference between mirrored/mirrorless cameras once that lens is attached, outside the loss of an optical viewfinder.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:49 pm 
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Hi lagnificent,

For a number of situations it's certainly a mistake to downsize the lens but with a DSLR I don't really have the option of a small package when I don't need such lenses. If I had a good set of Sony/Minolta lenses my decision would already have been made and I'd be the proud owner of a NEX-7. With Canon glass the options are more problematic but I'll know enough by the fall to be able to decide what to do.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Bob, is the option of an electronic adapter to enable aperture control of Canon lenses on NEX bodies appealing to you? You still get the built in manual focus assist, but no AF.

At least I think someone makes one, or was it for m3/4? Or both?

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Hi popo,

Thank you very much for the suggestion. It's a worst case scenario in some ways but if all else fails it might be an option. The only lenses I'll get an average price for are my 24-105 and 70-200 as, for some inexplicable reason, I didn't keep the packaging but with one notable exception (a lens which I no longer need - forum policy forbids me saying which one!) I'm happy to keep my glass for the while as it holds value well and Canon may yet pull a rabbit out of the hat later this year.

With the 5D2 sold and the potential funds that can be released if I do sell all my glass the promised Leica mirrorless (yes, I know!) might even be in range. An M10 appeals so far as bragging rights go but I'd have to think long and hard about that one.

I'll know enough about the Leica options and any possible Canon announcement by the autumn to make a decision even if the dream kit isn't available until this time next year. If I do have to wait that long then a G1 X is likely as the stopgap, as I think I mentioned earlier.

Exciting times.

Bob.

P.S. As this is rapidly developing into an "undecided on the brand" sort of thread I think I'd better move it to the correct section!

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:57 pm 
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I vote Leica M Bob. You'll love it! :wink:

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