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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:35 am 
I don't think that CSC will stick. It doesn't make good-enough sense. And if it does stick, there is no reason why it can't be redefined to include large-sensor compacts that have fixed lenses. Sigma will be coming out with two new ones soon, and Canon has one. All these compacts with either large sensors or interchangeable lenses really belong in the same category.

Gordon, I'd like to make a suggestion. If your site is like mine, you can put the same header and footer on every page. I would like to suggest that above or below your row of links -- About Gordon Laing / How we test / Best Cameras / Advertising / Camera reviews / Supporting Camera Labs -- you insert a short glossary of the most-common terms used in your articles. That would save you a lot of trouble.

Thus, if you follow my suggestion in the first paragraph, an entry in the glossary could say:

CSC (Compact System Camera) -- Any compact camera that has advanced features, such as a large sensor or interchangeable lenses.

If you don't want to put the glossary on every page, you could provide a link to it.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:56 am 
somebody have to redefine the meaning of System Camera...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:30 pm
Posts: 9886
Location: UK
Hi Caleb,

I know where you are coming from but my personal view is that "system" is most commonly used when referring to lens systems and that using the term CSC to include fixed lens large sensor compacts doesn't feel quite right. As was noted in the parent thread (from which this one was split) the term CSC has been out in the wild for some time and I doubt the ability of any site to redefine it now.

While Wikipedia isn't always the definite source of accurate information the statement here that:
    Compact System Camera (CSC) - now the most popular terminology with internet retailers, and also the name Olympus gives to this class of camera
is accurate then it wouldn't make much sense for any camera review site to use different terminology from such retailers. Just my two cents worth and maybe things will change...


Sony RX1R II. Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm f/2.8 + 1.4x T/C, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8
M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8, Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:34 pm 
I don't put much stock in Wikipedia. I had bad experiences with it.

My objection is to the redefinition of English words. "System" is a vague, catch-all kind of word, and you simply can't apply your own specific definition to it. It's like the word "performance". Most camera reviewers will talk about the "performance" of a camera when they really mean its speed at taking pictures. The word "performance" was taken from the automotive world, where it also is used to mean speed. Yet the performance of a camera should include the quality of the resulting photos, since that is arguably more important than the speed at which it operates.

My objection to using the word "system" is two-fold. First, the word "system" reminds me more of a camera's internal computer than it does to its lenses. Second, all cameras have "systems", and those systems are not much different between low-end and high-end cameras. To refer to high-end cameras as having "systems" suggests that low-end cameras don't have "systems", when in fact the low-end camera has all the same basic elements that a high-end camera has, but the elements just aren't as good. So using the word "system" isn't only vague, it embodies a false implication.

"Compact System Camera" was probably devised by a marketing person who doesn't appreciate the nuances of the English language.

But let's not argue. We won't agree, and I am happy to keep tilting at windmills.

I'm going to bed now.

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:36 am 
I liked it better when the new mirrorless cameras with the interchangeable lenses were called EVIL (electronic viewfinder, interchangeable lens). It described their function perfectly and there was no confusion.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 994
Location: SE Texas
I will agree with Bob here; when the subject matter is cameras, the term "system" indicates interchangeable lenses.

Canon 5Ds R/7D2/7D/5D/40D/1D2N/M3; Nikon F6/D3s/D700/FM3A/1Dx/Coolpix A. Lens selection undergoing changes; some favorites: Zeiss 2/135 APO Sonnar, Canon 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS and 135L, Nikkor 14-24/2.8G and 24-70/2.8G.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 9978
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
Hi everyone, for better or worse, the term 'system' is already being used by Sony and Panasonic to refer to cameras with interchangeable lenses. Both companies describe their NEX and G-series models as Compact System Cameras and in presentations define 'system' as referring to the removeable lens capabilities.

I'm following their lead and using the term CSC to describe small cameras with big sensors and removeable lenses - therefore I won't be describing the G1 X as a CSC.

It is very confusing though, and you're right Caleb, a glossary would be a useful addition to the site. There's just so many things to do!

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