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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Hello WatchFan1, and welcome to the friendly Camera Labs forum!
To enjoy your stay here please have a look at the house-rules!
----
All quotes were verbatim from his website at time of publishing. Search for "D800E" here. I was referring to his recommending the D800E to professional lens-testers and "tweaks" twice and for people that "really had my technique down and printed at 30 x 45" all day".

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:33 am 
Thomas, I am definitely looking forward to your review of the D800. For the life of me, I've been trying to find some larger samples of the D800 photos but have only found jpgs on Nikon's site. I stumbled upon a couple samples that show a lot more detail.

http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-content ... -bride.jpg

http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-content ... ibrary.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:50 am 
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I would download them directly from Nikon here:
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/sample01.htm for D800
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/sample02.htm for D800E
Safest way to get the images as Nikon intended them...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:55 pm 
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I'm just bookmarking a piece on the German DSLR-forum for future reference: It gives some insight as to the effects of shake on a D800 vs. a D700 or any other body (even DX).
Will do the translation some time...
Short version:
- if you compare images printed to the same size, the effect of shake is not greater on a D800 than on any other camera.
- if you compare images on pixel-level you need to use a shutter speed on the D800 that is higher by the square-root of (36MP:xMP) with x being the number of pixels on the other camera's sensor.
Easy, isn't it?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:27 pm 
I would be very interested to know how you managed to get an in camera crop at a 5:4 ratio from the D700 Thomas as per your quoted statement below.

Finally, before going up to full FX, we have the 5:4 crop:
- at 30MP that’s nothing to scoff at of you think that the D3s and D700 “only” had 10MP in this mode.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:45 pm 
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With the D700 you can only crop post-shot either in-camera or in post-processing to 5:4.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Here's my piece on shake in English, enjoy!
---
Regarding the effect of shake on a D800 I was pretty alarmed: because what good are the nicest lenses when the images lack sharpness due to shake! But like all other discussions (e.g. regarding CA, diffraction, resolution) we have to differentiate between statements based on equal output/print-sizes (and equal viewing-distances) and statements that compare effects on pixel-level.

Case 1a: Let's have a look at the simplest case first: equal output size (+ equal viewing distance) and equal sensor size. Nothing changes when shooting with the D800 or a D700, nothing! The circle of confusion stays the same size (measured in mm) in both cases. Only that the D800 can cram more pixels into that circle - you might say that blur is better resolved.

Case 1b: If you look at the case where output-size and viewing-distance is equal but you have sensors of different size (say D300 and D800) we have to think a bit. Hmm, let's see: To make the situation fully comparable you have to assume that the image is taken with focal length L (say 100mm) on the D300 and with focal length Lx1.5 (that would be 150mm) on the D800. This yields the same point of view (= same perspective) and the same angle of view resulting in identical images. Let me assume further that I have the same "shakiness" with both combos (e.g. D300 plus 28-300 VR at 100mm and D800 plus 28-300 VR at 150mm): that is the angle of deflection that my shake induces is equal for both combos. Now the circle of confusion from shake is 50% larger on the D800 sensor (again measured in mm, not pixel) because the longer focal length magnifies my shake accordingly. But: I have to magnify the image from the D300 by 1.5x to achieve the same output size. So again, you will see no difference from both combos!
Let's do some quick math to verify this: let's assume the circle of shake is 0.1mm with the D300+100mm combo in my hands, that would be 1/160 sensor-height. On the sensor of the D800+150mm combo that would result in a circle of 0.15mm diameter because the lens is 50% longer and that is ... right: again 1/160 sensor height (0.15/24).
So at the same output size you will see no difference in shake at all.
And beyond theory?
Normally the combination of a FX-body and a 50% longer lens results in a heavier combination than the respective DX-combo. That in turn should result in higher damping of shake. Unfortunately carrying a higher weight might also result in more tension in the muscles and/or faster fatigue which in turn could increase shake. So it is hard to calculate what the net-effect of a higher weight would be.
And what is with the effect that you need to stop down the lens on the FX-combo by one stop to achieve the same dof? And you would need to slow down the shutter accordingly if you want to keep your ISO? Yes, that's right. But as FX-sensors capture more light I'd assume that you can leave the shutter speed unchanged in both cases and simply raise the ISO on the FX-body without negativ impact in that comparison.

To sum it up so far: At the same output size neither the number of pixels nor the sensor size plays any role in the effect of shake.

Now on to case 2: Comparison on the level of individual pixels, e.g. D700 vs. D800.
Well, this case is also pretty simple: With the growth in linear resolution the diameter of the circle of shake grows equally. I.e. at 100% magnification the circle is 73% larger on the D800 (diameter measured in pixels) as on the D700. So you need 73% faster shutter speed to compensate for this. E.g. a 1/200 sec on the D800 produces the same circle of shake (in pixels) as a 1/125 sec on the D700. To put this into a formula: The shutter-speed on the D800 needs to be faster by the square-root(36:x), where x is the number of pixels on the sensor of the camera you're coming from.

Putting the results from (1) and (2) together: If you're coming from a D7000 (16MP) and upgrade to a D800 you will see no more shake if you view your images in the same output size but you need to shoot 50% faster if you view your images at 100% (pixel-level).

Hope that answers all your questions regarding the sensitivity of the D800 with regard to shake!
Puh...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:12 pm 
I tried putting a memory card into a model at WPPI this past year.

didn't happen.

overall though, it feels like it SHOULD definitely be cheaper than the d4.

Coming from the d700 bandwagon, it felt very slow. like I was shooting a d90.

The images look almost exactly like that of the d7000.

The rep said that ISO performance will be better than the d3/d700 systems.

I'm still pretty torn, but seriously- the lack of speed cannot be overlooked.


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 Post subject: QUICK QUESTION...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:53 pm 
{{{apologies if I missed the answer someplace}}}

Does the D800 have a Live Histogram?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:26 am 
Hello Guys,

I am not new here but i guess i been going long enough that my account got deactivated, but anywho...

I am heavily thinking about getting the D800, But im not sure it is logical for me to get it. right now im thinking sell my D300 and just keep the D7000 for a backup/video, for youtube. Im really wanting to get the D800 so i am at a cross roads, and wanted to know your take on it. what would be the best decision here. Keep the D300 and use the money for the D800 on a really good lens. or sell the D300 and get the D800 and a decent lens for it. Either way i plan to keep the D7000 for video purposes for Youtube.

Love to know what you guys think.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Hello rs_photography, and welcome (back) to the friendly Camera Labs forum!
To enjoy your stay here please have a look at the house-rules! And btw.: Your avatar is definitely too large!
----
As to your Q: If I had a D7000 I would almost certainly have abandoned my D300 some time ago. But still I would long for a full-frame body! Unfortunately I buoght my D300 just a few months before the announcement of the D700. If I had known this I would have continued with my D80 until I could have bought a D700.
Full-frame bodies are like nothing else:
- They capture 2.25x more light than a DX/APS-C-body and thus are always better at signal-to-noise ratio than any camera with a smaller sensor.
- You can get more background isolation /shallow dof from a FF/FX-body than from a DX-body. The effect is equivalent to about 1 stop. So you would need a f/1.0 lens on a D7000 to have the same shallow dof than with a f/1.4 lens on a D800.
So a FF-body gives you some things that you really can never reach with a smaller sensor and the D800 especially brings the absolute flexibility to the table: Fully use the extraordinarily high 36MP resolution (with SNR that is rumored to be around the same as with the D700 on pixel-level) or sclae back to 16MP or 12MP and get the benefit of very good high-ISO capabilities.
The only thing the D800 is not flexible is speed: If you absolutely need more than 4-5 fps you need to get another camera.

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D800+assorted lenses


Last edited by Thomas on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:39 pm 
Ok thanks Thomas on the input...

Edit: Balance of post removed. Please do not use the forum to point to "For Sale" items even though you didn't provide a direct link. Thanks. Bob Andersson.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:00 am 
rs_photography wrote:
Hello Guys,

I am not new here but i guess i been going long enough that my account got deactivated, but anywho...

I am heavily thinking about getting the D800, But im not sure it is logical for me to get it. right now im thinking sell my D300 and just keep the D7000 for a backup/video, for youtube. Im really wanting to get the D800 so i am at a cross roads, and wanted to know your take on it. what would be the best decision here. Keep the D300 and use the money for the D800 on a really good lens. or sell the D300 and get the D800 and a decent lens for it. Either way i plan to keep the D7000 for video purposes for Youtube.

Love to know what you guys think.



I'd sell both your cameras tbh. The D800 may not shoot 8FPS like the D300, but it shoots at 6fps in DX mode, and has video.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:02 am 
palakaboy wrote:
I tried putting a memory card into a model at WPPI this past year.

didn't happen.

overall though, it feels like it SHOULD definitely be cheaper than the d4.

Coming from the d700 bandwagon, it felt very slow. like I was shooting a d90.

The images look almost exactly like that of the d7000.

The rep said that ISO performance will be better than the d3/d700 systems.

I'm still pretty torn, but seriously- the lack of speed cannot be overlooked.



Not quite sure where the 'lack of speed' came from, as it's got the same af sensor as the D4. 6fps is about what I got with my ungripped D700, and the high iso raw files I've played with look great, so I've ordered one.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:53 am 
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I'm having to work at convincing myself that D800 files look as good at iso 400, 800, 1600 etc, as D700 files of the same item. D800 image objects are of course larger item for item, but they don't seem to be as noise free as the same thing shot with a D700.
Anybody else?

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