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 Post subject: Speedlite 580 vs 430?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Posts: 135
Hi

I have a question about speedlites.
I already have a speedlite 430EX II and I need one more, for my 7D.
My question is what do I get if I buy the 580, other than the possibility trigger other flashes wireless - just as my 7D's popup flash already does.
I read that it's more powerful and can be used with a tele lens, I've never tried that with my 430.

It's almost twice the price, so what justifies that?


Michael


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:42 pm 
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More power, "strobability", weather sealing... yeah....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Hi Michael,
To answer your question properly it would be better to know what do you want to shoot with it. It could be an overkill if you dont't need the aditional power. 580 (GN=58 ) it is about on stop more than 430. That should tell you something about the difference. Let's say that it could be more useful if you shoot indoor sprts like hokey or something like that. But for multi flash portraits it's an over kill. It can control other canon flashes but the system is based on IR and limited to line of sight and that may cause difficuleties. It would be wiser in this situation to buy a cheaper flash and radio triggers plus stands and umbrellas and you won't exceed the price of the 580.

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Canon580EXII
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:04 am 
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Well the 7D has IR trigger build in the popup flash, so it doesn't really matter, unless I want to go for a 5D.

I never shoot indoor sports.
It is as a fill light.
Strobability? Cant the 430 deliver enough light to be used with a soft box or umbrella?

I don't have much experience with strops for portraits. Do I need 2 or 3 flashes - or more?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:09 am 
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- its the IR trigger in the 580 that doesn't matter. I might buy radio triggers some day. But so far the popups IR works just fine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:08 am 
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Erm... sorry, not precise enough. The 430 is strong enough as a studio flash. I meant that stuff: http://www.google.de/search?q=strobosco ... 20&bih=409

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Canon EF 28-80mm 3.5-5.6 USM + EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 50mm 1.8 II + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:41 pm 
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The 580 has a lot more options when it comes to remote firing.
Also, you can get an external battery pack to decrease the time it takes to flash from 6 seconds to under 2 seconds. (1.6 I think)

If these things do not interest you, then I would recommend just getting a second 430.

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Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon 430EX II
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Wow I like that strope effect, it looks great.

I think I would rarely use those features, but it could be fun to play with.
If I buy a cheaper and have to upgrade later, then I actually waste money by buying the cheaper one. But... hmmm

It's a bit difficult


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:00 pm 
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I understand what you mean.

I went cheaper, but now am starting to want some of those extra features.
So I'm debating between making due with what I have, selling my 430 to upgrade, or just getting a 580 and keeping my 430 as a second flash.

I'm leaning towards the later.

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Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX Macro

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon 430EX II
Opteka 13mm, 21mm, and 31mm extension tubes
Vivitar 50mm f/1.8 for OM System


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:11 pm 
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@BleuDragon

Which features do you wish you had that the 580 brings?

I'm thinking of going for another 430 as my second flash and get some TTL radio triggers to fire them. I am not keen on the way that the 580 will still show secondary catchlights in the eyes even when set to trigger only/not fire during exposure.

I do have an ST-E2 that I could use to fire the two 430's indoors while I save up for my TTL triggers

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:32 pm 
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michael_g wrote:
But... hmmm

Yeah :lol:
That's why I went for the 580EX II. I know there's nothing better and so I don't have to worry about it again. I can do with it whatever I want to use it for (or what I didn't think of before) and it's just great. I like it. ;)

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Canon EF 28-80mm 3.5-5.6 USM + EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 50mm 1.8 II + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:55 pm
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Location: SE Texas
If I recall correctly, the 580EX II has weather-sealing at the base, whereas the lesser Speedlites do not, so on a weather-sealed camera such as the 7D, this can be an advantage. I also seem to recall that the 580EX II has a synch port, that the lesser Canon flashguns do not have. I do not yet own a 580EX II, but have considered the purchase.

Another thing to consider is whether a flashgun is compatible with external batteries. I know that the 580EX is able to do so.

I was blessed to start my DSLR shooting with a pre-owned original 580EX, so every Canon-fit flashgun acquired since has been lesser in some way. (220EX, 320EX, Nissin 866 Pro) I have come very close to purchasing a 430 several times, but each time, decided to wait, or try an alternative. The 220EX and 320EX have been wonderful, within their limitations. The Nissin 866 Pro has been quite good when used on-camera, but not as cooperative when used as the remote flash, when triggered by my ST-E2 or a master flash.

Zack Arias' blog and DVD opened my eyes to the use of Nikon flashguns
with Canon cameras, by coupling them to Pocket Wizards. So, anyone who is
considering radio triggers is not limited to Canon-fit flashguns.

Syl Arenas recently penned a truly excellent book on the subject of Canon Speedlites, which is available from Amazon.com, and I will emphasize that following the link to Amazon from the link here on Cameralabs helps support this forum financially, while costing the buyer nothing extra.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Lens Rentals has a nice article regarding Strobe Triggers.

In it, the article talks about Pocketwizard Plus II Transceiver and how it does not work with the 430 EX II and why. The pocket wizard looked interesting for a radio trigger, and would open up some possibilities during certain occasions.

Mainly, when I used a flash lately, I have been wanting a faster charge time so I can use it more often. I found out that this can be done relatively easy and inexpensive with an external battery pack... if I had a 580.

Those are the two main reasons I have been thinking about it lately. If I had gotten the 580, I would have already purchased an external battery pack.

I generally like to plan out my camera purchases several years in advanced in order to pace myself. This year I plan on getting a macro lens, maybe a flash based solution to help with it if need be. Next year is a new camera body, at least until something else bumps it back more.

If I need a flash based solution, something like the ray flash is dependent upon the flash being used. So if I will be wanting it, it is best to start thinking now. Though I may end up talking myself out of upgrading my flash. I keep doing that with the camera body.

"My camera works really well right now. I think I can go one more year on it, spend more on other things like lenses, then when I upgrade the body, I already have most of everything else I would want/need. Also, the new models will be out soon, so it should be a better upgrade when I pay more for X body... or would I prefer y body."

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Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II, 24-105mm f/4L, 50mm f/1.4, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DO, 85mm f/1.8
Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX Macro

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon 430EX II
Opteka 13mm, 21mm, and 31mm extension tubes
Vivitar 50mm f/1.8 for OM System


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:50 am 
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An alternative for those for whom a 580EX II is a bit expensive, is a pre-owned 580EX. One advantage it has over its successor is that there is a selector switch for master and slave (remote) modes, which can save time when one is in a hurry; no need to go into a menu for that particular task.

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Canon 7D2/7D/5D/40D/1D2N; Nikon F6/D700/FM3A/1Dx/Coolpix A; Canon 40mm 2.8 STM, 135L, 50L, 35L, 50mm 1.8 I, 100mm 2.8L Macro, 10-22mm EF-S, 400mm 5.6L; Nikkor 50mm 1.2 AI-S, 50mm 1.4G, 50mm 1.8D, 16mm 2.8D Fisheye, 180mm 2.8D, 100-300mm 5.6 AI-S, 18mm 2.8D, 45mm 2.8 AI-P, Micro 60/2.8G; Voigtlander 90mm f/3.5 SL II


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:13 am
Posts: 135
Is it a good idea to get an unoriginal flash, like Nissin DI 866 mk 2, I have read that it is equalent to the canon speedlite 580.
It it true?
Can it also communicate with the IR systems of the 7D, 430 speedlite or will I not be abel to use them together?
Can it do that storbe funtkion?

Does anyone know?


M


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