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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:38 am 
Maybe the camera market is different in Dubai. But in Toronto (and I think most of the US) new flagship cameras usually maintain their debut prices for almost a year before there is any drop. It's taken this long for the D3s's price to drop approximately $600 CAD. :) At one of our larger camera shops their asking price for the D3s is back to the original asking price of $5200!!

As far as availability goes...first shipments are all for the "Pro's". You have to prove to the sales guys you are a working photographer.

For me...I'd rather wait for the head-to-head testing before I spend that much money for a camera body. I'm presently a Nikon shooter. But if the 1D-X proves superior...maybe I'll jump ship...and that's a HUGE maybe. The 1D-X goes for 7k CAD ($6300 CAD for the D4). Rather get a FF camera the size of either the 5D3 or D800. I want a camera with good native ISO range. Having a max of 6400 doesn't cut it for me (Nikon Rumours claims the D800 will only have a max native ISO of 6400). At that rate I might as well buy a 5D2 or D700. So I'm waiting for the 5D3 and D800 (hope there are 2 models...one with 100-12,800 native ISO).

All else fails (e.g. D800 and 5D3 end up with max native ISO of 6400) I might just go buy a D3s. Still a great camera today. Not that different from the D4. The D4's improvements are mostly incremental at best.

Plus, the battery life of the D3s almost doubles that of the D4. :) I wonder what it is about the D4 that will require so much more juice.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:10 am 
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Well Nikon prices are different in Dubai - 20% more than the rest of the world, pretty much. The killer is the resale market for lenses - you hit a big loss if you buy locally and resell locally. That has advantages for picking up lenses though.

The plan will be to buy while on a trip somewhere when there is readily available stock and then claim tax back.

I'm glad the megapixel race is dying down - for my needs around 16Mp is plenty and with 11fps and even better autofocus tracking for sports that I shoot. The autofocus on the D700 is plenty good enough for occasional sports, but 11fps with 400,000 actuations as an average shutter life will be appealing to me as a freelance.

High ISO - I'm more than happy with my D700 as I generally go to 6400 max - D4 files that are 1 - 1 1/2 stops cleaner than the D3s, which in turn is 1 - 1 1/2 stops cleaner than the D3/D700 sensor will be a dealbreaker, along with the -2EV autofocus for low light - it will be a killer. 6400 on a D4 being like 800-1600 on a D700 - I'll happily subscribe to that, thanks! I seriously doubt Nikon will drop the ball on their clean high ISO advantage in recent years


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:14 am 
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"Plus, the battery life of the D3s almost doubles that of the D4. I wonder what it is about the D4 that will require so much more juice."

Backlit lights! LOL

I'm not too concerned about battery life - Nikon is quite pessimistic with regards reporting that. If you chimp a lot or have your LCD on review for 30 seconds after a shot then that's going to hurt battery life a lot on any camera.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:13 pm 
Most of the time I try to shoot with low ISO since that is where you'll get the best quality images. But I prefer to shoot in natural light so having the ability to go to 12,800 and still get fairly clean images would be a plus. Which is why I'm hoping Nikon will release the D800 with the native ISO range of the D3s. If not...then maybe Canon's 5D3. No leaked specs for that camera yet.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:28 am 
This chinese dude has a Nikon D4 in his hands on the tudou website (chinese version of youtube, I cannot access youtube from china).

If you want to hear what 11fps continuous shooting sounds like skip to 06min:30secs in the video. Sounds really impressive. If you want to see the rest of the camera just enjoy the movie. He is a bit hard to follow due to his chinese accent but he speaks english (sort of).


http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/leo_a3BleYg/

Here is also a movie with the title

WHY - Nikon D4 release video.
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/kwFyBUTmVEc/

I have the feeling it has some panning issues but that might have to do with converting it to youtube size format instead of full-hd 24fps.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:29 am 
If anyone else is interested, there is a good "head to head" comparison of the D4 and the rumored D800 at the following link. http://mansurovs.com/nikon-d4-vs-d800

I find it interesting (and amusing) that some of us like to compare the D4 with the 1D-X in every detail as if we are prepared to ditch our current cameras for the winner of that contest. What about the glass??? That is often multiples of the cost of the camera bodies themselves. I "married" Nikon years ago "for better or worse" and have invested in a lot of very good Nikon glass which is a joy to shoot with. I will be confining my comparisons to the D4 vs. the D800 as I would like a second body. To hedge my bet, I pre-ordered a D4 the minute they became available and will reassess the situation when the D800 is officially announced, hopefully before February 16th!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:47 pm 
I am constantly confused by why people get so heated (not here, mind you!) over features and labeling them as "best". Either a feature lends itself to your style and type of photography, or it doesn't. Right? It's a tool, and nothing more. I guess I wouldn't be surprised over people arguing whether traditional wood-handled, or solid-shaft titanium hammers are better for beating iron vs aluminum nails...

As far as translucent mirror cameras being up to snuff or not, I will ask some of you veteran users to remember along with me what you thought of the FIRST and even second generation digital cameras when you compared them with the quality of your trusty film cameras... (I know, Right?). If the industry embraces mirror less, then innovation will improve speed, response, low-light performance, and a slew of other features. No one within the constraints of a proper business model is going to release an "end-all, be-all" product, as the sales refresh cycle will quickly stagnate. If any manufacturer actually gives consumers everything they want in a given year, unless there is a SHORT, finite expiration of the product which forces additional purchase, the company will die. (As an example, consider when the last time you hesitated buying bulk quantity of bathroom tissue was because the next year's model might come out with better features?) Sucks, but I think most of us will agree that this is largely how business works.

So, I have high-end Nikon glass. Should that mean that I begrudge Canon making an update to something that would make my style of photography easier or more consistently achievable? I think not. So I look forward to hearing what the D800 has to offer, and will decide between the two for my second and backup bodies.

I wish you all (no matter the manufacturer) good hunting in pursuing your artistic visions in the future. That's what we're all here for in the first place, aren't we?

All are my personal opinions, and I really do welcome conversation about this and much, much more.

Ken N.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Yes those invested in glass would pay a huge penalty should they consider switching the manufacturer of the camera body. But it's good to know that Canon, Nikon and Sony are always trying to gain new users that e.g. upgrade from p&s, bridge or APS-C cameras and are not heavily invested in FX-lenses already. That keeps the competitive pressure high and should prevent stagnation.
But there is indeed a leveling off of things you can improve on any given format as video is now almost completely integrated and the laws of physics limit any significant improvement in sensor-performance. This is what a senior Nikon manager said in an interview with Rob Galbraith: "Overall, D4 high ISO noise levels are very similar to the D3S".
So only two major features remain to be implemented imho:
- image stabilization for ALL lenses (Sony: done!)
- make FF/FX bodies smaller and lighter (Leica: done!)

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Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:34 pm 
I haven't invested in any expensive pro Nikon glass yet so if I were to go invest in a Canon 5D3 it wouldn't be a bad move. If the 5D3 has the feature set I'm hoping for for my type of shooting (e.g. mostly natural light, low-light at times..portraits, landscapes, action...etc.).

If I can't find the features I want in the D800, 5D3...then I guess I'll get a D3s...unless Nikon has already started to reduce the price of the D4 by then (when I'm ready to buy). I'm guessing the cost for a D4 won't begin to drop till a year after the D4 hits the market.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Well despite all the negative comments, I've ordered a D4. I think it's well worth the $6000. I currently have the D3 and it's time for it to have a companion.
Nikon has never disappointed me.

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Peter

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:57 pm 
Red GBR,

What does the D4 have over your D3 that made it worth ordering as a "companion"?

$6000 CAD? Every one is selling it for $6300 CAD (before taxes). Where did you order yours from?

And I've heard nothing but good comments about the D4.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:02 am 
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Location: SE Texas
Gordon Nebeker makes a good point about one's lens investment being a significant factor in a decision to switch platforms! Not just cost, but each lens has a virtual personality, which must be learned in order to do good work.

Then, there are the fundamental differences in menus and controls! This is especially relevant for subjects that move, and fluid situations. When action occurs, one tends to revert to training. Something a simple as the moon's apparent path across the sky can be a challenge, as I compared the abilities of two different familiar Canon models and my wife's D7000 on a recent rare clear night.

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Canon 7D/5D/40D/1D2N; Nikon F6, D700, FM3A, & Coolpix A; Canon 40mm 2.8 STM, 135L, 50L, 35L, 50mm 1.8 I, 100mm 2.8L Macro, 10-22mm EF-S, 28-135 EF, 400mm 5.6L; Nikkor 50mm 1.2 AI-S, 50mm 1.4G, 50mm 1.8D, 16mm 2.8D Fisheye, 180mm 2.8D, 100-300mm 5.6 AI-S, 18mm 2.8D, Voigtlander 90mm f/3.5 SL II


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:28 pm 
So it appears now that there will be a delay in shipping the first D4 cameras. Something about fixing the software or the firmware or some combination thereof. The new projected ship date is "mid March". *sigh* I guess if I have waited this long already, another month is not the end of the world. I guess I am mostly disappointed that we must all wait another month before we start getting in-depth hands-on reviews and more evidence of IQ, though the few photographs I have seen thus far (on Joe McNally's blog site for example) are mighty impressive.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:32 pm 
The original arrival date of the D4 for Canada was the end of March. So for us nothing's changed. First shipments are all reserved for working photographers. Proof required.

I was hoping the D800 would have similar specs. High DR + 100-12,800 native ISO...etc. Instead Nikon chose to make the D800 a high MP landscape/studio portrait camera. So if I stick with Nikon it will either be the D3s (still a great camera) or the D4.

I do have one eye on the Canon 5D3 too...would also prefer not to have a camera with the portrait grip. "Size matters". :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:29 pm 
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I just hope that this delay does not have any implications for the expected delivery date of the D800 (22.3. in Germany)

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