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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:08 am 
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Hi everyone, this is the official thread to go with my Phase One IQ180 sample images article.

Image

Thanks to the good folk at Phase One / PODAS, I was lucky enough to try out an IQ180 with a 645DF body and a couple of lenses one sunny afternoon in Queenstown, New Zealand, and under sunny conditions with the lowest ISO value, the results are spectacular!

See for yourself: I've got a selection of images at the native 80 Megapixel resolution in my article. I've had to JPEG them until the file size nipped-in under the 20MB limit of flickr, but they still look pretty darned good. (For the record, the JPEG setting was 9 in Photoshop, so it's not too extreme).

Find out more in my article and let me know what you think here!

You may also be interested in forum moderator Thomas's analysis of the DxOMark results here.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:43 am 
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And I thought the 15 megapixels of the 50D were that many, well, you can always go higher :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:23 am 
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I think there are someone at your door Gordon, looks like it's an UPS employer with a package from Amazon. xD

In all seriousness though, holy frickin resolution Batman, the details are mind blowing.

Looks like the IQ180 back has the same pixel pitch as the 7D.

How is the noise below ISO-100, is there a clear difference?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:29 pm 
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The lens even has the cameralabs logo on it :lol:

Looks like a nice technology though (I'm just getting started with medium format rangefinders). Especially interested in more wide-open aperture shots.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Size matters! :!:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Geez man, these camera's may have giant resolution, but they are s**t ugly!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:57 pm 
Citruspers wrote:
The lens even has the cameralabs logo on it

That's exactly what I thought! :lol:

Seriously though, the detail level is insane compared to any other things I've seen, and some impressive workhorses have been tested here... :shock:

Besides, it's not also the detail level, the images look absolutely beautiful. A truly truly amazing piece of "kit"


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:12 pm 
I agree its one ugly looking camera but you can`t argue the quality of the images. My main worry with a camera kicking out images this size is what computer is going to handle them?? How about a Panoramic shot Gordon?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Maybe that's not the most flattering view from the back... it actually looks - and feels - pretty good in person...

But those images, wow, I've never seen anything like them. As for processing, sure, they're large, but Capture One and Photoshop felt fairly responsive. But try them out for yourself - all four of those images can be downloaded at their full resolution, and while they have had some JPEG compression to keep their file sizes below 20MB, once they're decompressed and open on your computer, they'll use the same resources as the original files.

PS - bobsden, I actually wanted to do a panorama up at the Skyline and generate a vast file, but I ran out of time. Besides I didn't have the ideal lens and tripod to do it justice. Hopefully next time this opportunity presents itself!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:58 pm 
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Only 80 megapixels? :lol:

But on a serious note, the files generated from it are so detailed, I guess this would be a situation where a sharp lens really is extremely crucial to use the camera to its full potential. My main concern would be, as bobsden mentioned, the large files. You'd have to carry around a pretty large memory card most of the time, and depending on your PC, editing them may not exactly be a great experience either.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:41 am 
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Hi Gordon,

Question: the pixel size on the IQ180 back at 5.2 microns is smaller than the pixel size (approx. 6.4 microns) of my 5D MkII. The DxOMark scores put the IQ180 way ahead of the 5D2 and your own results bear this out. Any idea what magic Phase One are working here to get so much more at the pixel level?

Bob.

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Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:37 am 
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Hi Evan, the RAW files were about 80-90MB each, or about 100 on an 8GB card.

Hi Bob, I can't comment on how DxOMark does its tests and as you know I have moved away from pure numerical benchmarking to deliver real-life images for people to compare.

So where's the comparison I hear you say! Well, I did mean to take a 5D2 up to the Skyline at the same time, but my loan failed to materialise. I do intend to match the composition next week with a 5D2 at around the same time of day. It won't be a perfect match, but you will see the relative amount of building detail.

I still say the 5D2 delivers the best image quality for a full-frame / 35mm sensor format.

I'll also show some higher ISO examples for the IQ180 soon...


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 Post subject: Always Great Stuff
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:54 am 
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First post. Thank you 'all' at Camera Labs for sharing your wonderful energy, enthusiasm and, insight. The learning, news and, recreational value Camera Labs delivers is very much enjoyed.
The capability of this Phaseone is impressive. Picking this camera or another medium format or view camera to take with me to photograph New Zealand, would be a tough choice to make. It is a good thing that cameras of this caliber are often used to photograph the most stunning places on earth- like Gordon's back yard. Once there, they seem to find their way into Gordon's hands. After Gordon has a look, we get to read and learn about them here at Camera Labs.
My guess is that the 80 mega pixel camera will be mid-range to semi-pro in ten years or so. After that, how long will it be until the resolution of film is available in a sensor?

Following added on January 17, 2012

I found all of the posts in this thread fascinating to say the least. Info on large format sensors always grabs my attention. The subsequent brief discussion on film vs digital resolution was very informative - certainly to me. Suffice it to say that I will research my questions a bit more before posting next time. On the subject of film vs sensor resolution, I went about looking for articles on the spacing of silver halide particles in film vs photo site spacing on a sensor. I found the article below which some may find interesting. Not exactly what I was looking for but very relevant and, published fairly recently in 2010. From the Rochester Institute of Technology Center for Imaging Research website: Fairchild, M.D., Still photography throwdown: Silver halide vs. silicon, IS&T/SID, 18th Color Imaging Conference, San Antonio, Texas, United States (2010)
http://www.cis.rit.edu/fairchild/PDFs/PRO36.pdf
Also found another answer in this thread - on TV I saw an aid repeatedly handing a photographer identical Hasselblad cameras during a photo shoot and wondered why. This thread's dialogue on sensor heating vs noise content provided me with the answer to my question.
Happy Trails all from the Mojave Desert.


Last edited by MrCliff on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:55 am 
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MrCliff wrote:
...how long will it be until the resolution of film is available in a sensor?
Digital photography has long surpassed the quality of film. Even 8x10 or 4x5 can no longer compete with large sensor backs. I'm not making this up. It has been thoroughly tested by quite a few well renowned photographers and the results are all over the internet. The are three reasons to stick to film though: sentimentality, no electricity and the limitations (flaws) most digital backs have at the moment.
Many photographers, including myself, prefer the P45+ because it is the only "no compromise" back at the moment. All current IQ backs should not be used for exposures longer than two minutes and even at two minutes the image begins to visibly deteriorate. Now, if you are wondering who is using exposures longer than that... many of the traditional large frame photographers do. Mainly it boils down to landscapes and architecture. Compared to the Leaf Aptus I'd say the 10,000 dollars less for 80 megapixels really speak for the Leaf. Although Phase and Leaf both use the same sensor and the same processor they produce completely different results. Traditionally Leaf, which is now owned by PhaseOne, has been known for better skin tones, but now it is all about personal preference and the budget, of course.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Bernie, I'd assume the 2 minute deterioration limit is a design choice. I'm assuming the problem here is heat generated by the sensor, which Hasselblad has sort-opf solved with a heatsink on it, if I recall correctly.

Now this is just an assumption of course, but I'm guessing fitting a sensor with watercooling isn't worth it for that small niche group within a niche group who needs digital long exposures :)

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