Camera Labs

Hi Dave,

How many shots does the HS10 actually give with 4-AA batteries? and how many with Nimh rechargeables?

Arpan - The AA Alkalines Fuji (another "Fuji-ism"...!) - put in the box with the Camera - lasted 134 still shots - and about 10-seconds each of the 2 levels of HD-Video, just to "have a look" at those.

Not at all a "good advert" for Panasonic, whose AA-Alkalines they were...!

There again - to save money, they might have been "special cheapies" - like those "freeby" printer cartridges given with new printers - which print about 15-20 pages of text before failing.

When I use AA-Alkalines in the HS10, they're backups for the Sanyo Eneloops I usually run my 3 cameras on. I use the Dick-Smith Electronics (a chain here in Oz with a product range similar to the Tandy chain) - home-brand ones.

They sell them in a snap-top plastic pack, 16 for $11.00. On VFM, they're as good as anything we have available here.

They do a bit over 250 stills, in the HS10, 300 in the older Fuji S2000HD, and 400 in my Canon SX10.

I mostly use Sanyo Eneloop NiMHs in all 3 cameras. Those get around 450 stills in the HS10, 400 with the S2000HD, and over 550 in the SX10. (A recent check with the SX10, was 561 - stills only.)

Note that with the HS10 - you must "tell it" - via the Menu selector, which type of battery you're using - Alkaline, NiMH, or Lithium, or the battery level indicator won't work properly.

When the Low-Battery indicator comes on - you have about 30-40 stills shots left before it shuts-down.

While it's said that you don't need to "fully-discharge" NiMHs before re-charging them - the HS10 (also the S2000HD) - do have an NiMH "Discharge" function.

Since getting the S2000HD and some sets of Eneloops for it, over 2 years ago, I don't use the Full-Discharge process for every re-charge - but once each half-dozen or so.

My now 5 sets of 4 Eneloops are kept together as "sets" - but are used in all 3 of my cameras. The originals from over 2 years ago are still working properly. The "test" mentioned above that got 561 stills from the SX10, was "Set-2" - bought for the S2000 over 2 years ago.

The SX30 is claimed by Canon to do 400 stills on its new Power-Pack. Spare Packs are over $70.00 here. Canon says that "foreign" ones can catch fire, or explode... Though that might be advertising hype...

Apparently they changed to Power-Pack to get the replacement / spares market - instead of Sanyo and others. Saving an ounce or two in a camera that size, is hardly a valid motive... And having only about two-thirds of the stills number ability isn't a great advantage.

As cameras using AAs usually sell to the hobbyist to prosumer user level, power units that are cheap to buy and "give a lot of shots or video", as the AA-Eneloops (etc) - do, are an advantage.

Even at Sydney prices - $22.00 for 4 Eneloops - you can have 3 sets for less than the price of 1 SX30 power-pack... And each set will do about 50% more stills than the power-pack...

Which makes one wonder - why didn't Canon make Power-Pack OR 4 x AAs optional? Because a lot of users moving up from SX10s and SX20s would already have sets of AA rechargeables - and also want the "if you run out" option of buying Alkalines at just about any shopping area.

And, no - Canon cannot say, "Can't be done!" - because Pentax has done exactly that with the new K-R - it comes with a Power-Pack - but also has an adaptor for 4 x AAs... The expensive and lower shots number Power-Pack saves a lot of weight, though - about an ounce...

Mr Pentax's Accountant can weep - but I won't be buying a half-dozen spare Power-Packs with my K-R - just another couple of sets of Eneloops...

Dave.

Just brought (gets delivered tomorrow) a HS10 after selling my A200 kit due to the logistical challenges of taking my DSLR overseas.
Anyway hopefully it'll give me all I need in one package. Mind you there does seem to be a lot of negativity towards the HS10 in reviews I have read on various sites. Fingers crossed they'll be unfounded and I'll enjoy my time with this bridge.

I have had a S5800 for a couple of years, and while a great little bridge with superb macro facility I did\does suffer from purple fringing something I hope the HS10 doesn't suffer from.

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Sony A200 * 18-70 kit lens * Minolta 70-210 high speed * Minolta 35-70 F4 AF * Sigma DG 70-300 macro * Sony SAL 18-55 * Red Snapper 3 way pan\tilt tripod. Selection of filters, lowepro fastpack bag.

Hi Dave,

I bought the hs10 about a week back. Took a few shots with it. Can you tell me whether I can control the depth of field in hs10?

Arpan - Controlling DOF is much more a DSLR thing - where the changeable lenses can be much more specific to purposes. Some have such shallow DOF that, aperture wide-open, or nearly, with a cat facing the camera - its eyes can be in exact focus - but its nose and ears will be blurred! But reducing the aperture - higher f-number - to f/8, f/10 or more - would increase the DOF so the cat's nose and ears will then be in focus.

Which of course does depend on the type of lens. DSLR lenses are very much precision instruments, as well as being purpose-specific - which is why they tend not to be "cheap".

With P&S cameras, since they can't change lenses, the lens-assembly being permanently attached, as it has to cope with "all distances" from Macro to Infinity - by definition they can't be "precise" as it has to "do everything", as a general-purpose device.

Some P&S cameras get close to being "precise" - such as the Canon G-Series. Those have a larger than P&S-average size sensor, and a very good zoom-lens assembly... But the larger sensor needs suitable lens focal-length - which in turn mean it can't use much "zoom multiplication" - the current G12 has a maximum of 5x optical zoom.

If the User needs more Zoom ratio - the sensor has to be smaller. Fuji and others do or did a few models with 1/1.7 or 1/1.6 sensors, but Zoom is limited to 14x, 12x, or less - and for what are still P&S cameras, they're fairly expensive.

For the 18-20x and up Long-Zoom cameras that are now popular, nearly all - or all, are 1/2.3 sensors, or very close to that. It's a "laws of physics" engineering problem for all of the Long-Zoom camera makers. To have a larger sensor the delivery focal length would have to increase - and the camera would need to be deeper, from front to back - until the "camera" would be the shape of a shoe-box - looking at it end-on - still with not a lot of sensor size increase.... Certainly nowhere near an entry-level crop-body DSLR's approx 16 x 24mm sensor.

So our HS10s - or Canon's SX30 IS - or Nikon's P100, etc - can only be a trade-off - if you want 26x - 30x - 35x - in a camera that also has to work at 24mm to 28mm at the "1x" Wide end - you have to accept a very small 1/2.3x sensor. Which at about 6.2 x 4.2mm physically can't possibly have the functions - including control of DOF - that even entry-level DSLR 'about' 16 x 24mm sensors - when used with suitable lenses - can have.

But with our Long-Zoom P&S cameras - using the HS10 as an example - we do get an "advantage" with our trade-off. For under $500.00 AUD or USD (they're at parity at present) - we get a lens assembly that focuses "all the way up to" 720mm.

To do that with a crop-body DSLR - the crop-sensor being a 1.5 or 1.6, depending on Brand, "multiplier" - you'd need an about 500mm lens - for an approx 750mm function. For such a large DSLR lens - plus the camera body to put it on - you'd pay several times the price of an HS10 - and more to get a "high-quality" 500mm lens.

So - on going from Wide-end to Tele-end in the HS10 - about 24mm to 720mm (equiv.) - we certainly do get a "bargain" for our under-$500.00...!

But - "every bit of that" - is part of the trade-off... At our 30x / 720mm we can't reasonably hope to get even close to the sharpness, dynamic range and detail recording, of a 500mm (crop body about 750mm) lens on any DSLR. Nor can we do what even a consumer level Sigma 17-70mm or a 50mm prime can do on a DSLR body at the "Wide-end" - and that includes fairly shallow to very shallow DOF, and the ability to precisely control it.

I have never used or even held a DSLR - but after 3 Bridge Zooms - Fuji S2000HD, Canon SX10 IS, and Fuji HS10 - over the last 3 years - and do very much like the SX10 and HS10 - I'm more and more often running into the "photography things" they won't and can't do.

Being on a fixed low income, it's taking a while, but I'm saving for a DSLR - it'll be a Pentax K-R, in a few months. Not because Canons and Nikons aren't good - both make superb DSLRs - but because Pentaxes have a huge range of Film-SLR used lenses going back 40 years or more, some very "good glass" available at quite low prices.

I already have several M42 and K-mount lenses. One of them, the "best of series" 1973 Takumar (Asahi-Pentax) SMC 55mm f/1.8 - will be "manual" on the K-R - and I'm assured from reading what the Advanced folk write - will have very good DOF functions and control thereof! Just learn how to do that as manual lens functions - which will be fun...!

If that's a "whole screed" as a Reply - it's really just saying - "the DSLR folk" are right - about P&S cameras in general, and Bridge Zooms in particular... If you want DSLR functions - like shallow DOF and precise control of it - you can only get that with an actual DSLR.

And if you're no longer working or are otherwise low-income - or do have a tight family budget - you "can" do the "DSLR thing" at relatively low cost.

Meanwhile - if you can't do shallow DOF and control it exactly, with an HS10 - but do want something like the effects, the "bokeh" blurred backgrounds - you can "fake it a bit" with the HS10. The camera has a rather long Standard Macro focus of 5-metres / 16-feet.

Use that, and place your subject, if a person, at 3-4 metres / 10-13 feet. Use a tripod or rest if possible. Get a background that will "fuzz-out" easily - a hedge, bushes, or similar. Use Spot Metering (Photometry), and Centre Focus. Keep that "background" at least twice as far behind the subject as the subject is from the camera.

You can do similar with smaller subjects - a flower at 1 metre / 3.3 feet - and a bushes / leaves, etc, backround at 2 metres / 7ft, or more, behind it.

Dave.

Tej - Hi! That's just what we need, heh! A tiny-sensor P&S with 16Mpix...

Perhaps they had to "outdo" Canon's SX30 with its 14Mpix on a 1/2.3" sensor... So, the HS20 has a "bigger" sensor - 1/2".

HS10 - 10Mpix on a 1/2.3" - 6.16 x 4.62mm sensor.

HS20 - 16Mpix on a 1/2" - 6.4 x 4.8mm sensor.

Which certainly isn't a 60% larger sensor area.

For all the crowing about "better video" - they seem not to have fixed the 2 glaring "needs" - the "too sudden" twist-zoom, and the lack of Exposure/Brightness control, and Manual Focus - the Canon SX30 has both - and also Zooms smoothly while video-ing... That is - you still wouldn't buy the HS20 for its video-abilities.

The HS20 is still 30x optical zoom... C'mon, Fuji - Canon's done 35x - surely you can do 40x...

Does the 2x integrated digital zoom now work with RAW? Can't see anything in the Specs that says it does.

With the "new" sensor - does that mean yet-another Fuji RAF version that very few programs can process, yet-again?

What has cramming 16Mpix onto an asprin-sized sensor done to the HS10's very good low-light / high-ISO abilities?

Has the delay-between shots been hugely improved - say, to Canon SX10 standard?

The "Reviews" on the HS20 should at least be "interesting"....

Dave.

Why would you need Digital zoom on RAW? Or better, why would you need digital zoom at all?

_________________
- Wout -
Nikon D80 with 18-70 DX, 70-300 VR, 35 1.8 DX
Manfrotto 055XPROB tripod with 488RC0 midi ballhead
Lowepro CompuRover AW and Nova 200 AW

Yes Dave, This seems to be more of an quick fix.
However it would be interesting to see how well are the issues in HS10 are handled in this revision. Like you always say the HS10 is not a great camera out of the box, but it has all the capabilities.

Hope this revision makes it a good camera out of the box as well.
In a way I am glad my wallet is still in my pocket and hope both the cameras will be available when the HS20 is released in March/April.

WoutK89 - Why need digital zoom at all? One doesn't "need" it... But, you see, apart from being "Official" recording devices, and "Very Serious" artistic devices - cameras can also be "Fun"....

You don't have to be 62, with some disabilities - as I am - to like having Fun with a camera. It's quite possible that there are folk well-under 60 - who enjoy having Fun with their cameras...

Also - not everyone has a Youthful Olympic fitness and mobility - they can find it too difficult to climb a Mountain to take close-up images of it. So might need an at least recognisable image of the Mountain from a greater distance.

Combine limits on access to some things, limits on mobility by some people, with the desire to have some Fun with a camera - and "extensions" to optical zoom can be quite Fun.

You might note that I said about the HS10's "2x integrated zoom". Which is similar to the "integrated TeleConverter" idea in the Canon SX10/20/30. Those also have the "usual" 4x digital zoom - which is different.

In the HS10, the 2x integrated zoom does a 5Mpix image - which is then re-interpolated by the camera's processor to a 10Mpix (3648 x 2736) image. The results are somewhat better than with cameras that just use 2/3/4x plain digital zoom. Though not, of course, as good as straight optical zoom.

But what you do get - at "virtual 60x" or "enhanced 1,440mm" - if you reduce that 3648 x 2736 image to a display size below 1600 x 1200 - is a better than you might expect "shareable", if not printable, quality image.

Now - if that integrated 2x zoom did work with the RAW files - as a 15MB+ RAW file has a lot more information than a 3-5MB JPEG - one might be able to get better results when it was processed... (A camera, when "taking JPEGs" has to create the RAW data first, before converting that into a JPEG.)

Which would be Fun to Play-Around-With - y'see...?

But of course - it would be FAR better to have a fairly good crop-body DSLR, say, $5,000.00 - and a nice 1,000mm prime - about 1,500mm on a crop-body, to "get out to" that 1,440mm or so - "on optical only". That'd be Fun, too! Sadly - my pension doesn't quite run to a "good" body and a "modest" 1,000mm lens... So until I get my Pentax K-R in a few months (but not with a 1,000mm lens...) - I'll keep Having Fun with the HS10...


Tej - What Fuji hasn't done is fix the worst of the glaring faults with the HS10... Which is "not" a good camera in "Auto" or "Program". Which is why so many early Users - and some, later - sent it back. It just doesn't "make it" as a good-images, easy-use "snaps" camera. Do that with it - and you'd get better results with a camera half the price, but designed for such use.

If you use Aperture and Shutter Priority - and teach yourself to use the - pretty good - full Manual, handheld - you'll get good results. Over about 24x - use a rest, or tripod. The Shake-Reduction "could be better". I find I'm using Shutter priority - for anything moving - and Manual, most, now. There's little "difficulty" difference between Aperture Priority and Manual - but Manual gives you full Control - and you can "Tell-It-What-To-Do...!"

But that certainly means it's no "easy-use-snaps" camera, at all. Which is something Fuji should be fixing, or the HS-Series is going to disappoint a lot of Buyers.

Just to be contrary - I love my HS10 - it's been, and continues to be - Highly Educational....! I'm no longer "scared of" or "don't think I know enough" to use - a good entry-level DSLR properly!

IF one can get a good percentage of "keepers" with a Fuji HS10 - doing that with a Pentax K-R - and my building collection of M42 and K-mount Film-SLR lenses - shouldn't be too difficult...

And yes - the 1973 SMC Asahi-Pentax f/1.8 55mm prime is said to do that lovely "real bokeh" so nicely, too... As I said - Experimenting is Fun...

- And somebody will ask - "Why use old FSLR lenses - manual on a Digital Body - when Everything is Automatic, these days...?"

- There is an answer to that, of course....

Dave.

hi all,

I have been using my hs10 for about a month now and am quite impressed with the image quality. But few days back I noticed something strange while taking some close up shots of flowers. A particular flower which is actually of deep purple colour is coming in the image as deep blue. The difference is so stark that when I pointed my camera towards the flower I was very surprised to see something so different on the screen from what it actually is.

I tried different modes and finally hoped that it is a fault of the screen and when I transfer the images from the camera to my pc I will see the correct colour. But later I saw in my pc also the colour was the same.

Am I doing something wrong or is it a problem of the camera? If so I won't recommend this camera to anyone. I will try to upload the photo soon.

@ Dave :: Can you check your set on some shades of purple and see if they come out right? Then it is my set that is faulty maybe!!

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I am a novice trying to learn the art of photography. I currently own a Fujifilm HS10.

Arpan - Hi, good to see you again. No - that certainly isn't something my HS10 does - and on Fuji Forum, I haven't seen it mentioned as a fault.

You might check some settings - in Shooting Menu, Page 1, Check that Finepix Colour is on "F-Standard" (that F-Chrome isn't selected.)

Page 2, check that the White Balance Fine Tune hasn't accidentally been set to have a "Blue" bias on the Yellow/Blue scale - set the Red/Cyan and Yellow/Blue scales to centre, "0".

Still on Page 2, re-set Colour and Tone to "Mid".

If you are using any sort of Filter as a lens-protector, remove it for testing.

The reason I mentioned the WB Fine-Tune, is that a while back I was trying to emphasise the colour of some pale yellow flowers, and set a "Yellow bias" of +2 on the Yellow/Blue scale there - then forgot about it until I next used the camera... And things in the Red-Orange-Yellow shades were distinctly "off-shade".

WB Fine-Tune is shown on Page 87 of the Manual.

If you try the above and it's still off-shade with Blue, you might try a full "Reset" to factory-defaults. That will remove all user-settings in the camera. Reset is on Page 1 of the Set-Up Menu.

After trying all of the above, if the "Blue bias" is still present, the camera itself could have a problem. At 1 month you're still well inside Warranty, so take it back to the shop and let them have a look at it.

Post back and tell us what's happening...

Dave.

hi Dave,
Your replies are really informative. I have learned most of the things about my camera reading your posts and the last one just added to it. Well, since I have changed my camera settings quite a few times after taking those shots ,I can't be sure of what exactly was the setting then. But those flowers are still there so I will look into all the settings you have mentioned while taking pictures of them on another day. Meanwhile I have just started shooting some RAW files. The first difficulty I am facing is I cannot make a tiff file with the RAF converter that is supplied with the camera. Its default option is jpeg and the tiff option is disabled. Can you help me with this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

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I am a novice trying to learn the art of photography. I currently own a Fujifilm HS10.

Arpan - Yes, the "Save as TIFF" is greyed-out in that "free" version - seems they want you to pay about $150.00 for the "Pro" version...!

But, no need for that. Actually, there were almost no other Windows programs, early on, that could handle the HS10 RAF RAWs - and not a lot that do now.

What you can do, is use Adobe's free DNG Converter, to convert HS10 RAF to DNG (Adobe Digital Negative) RAW format. The latest version, 6.3, or the one before, converts them. It will also Batch-Convert - just put the ones you want to convert into a directory (folder) and do it from there.

It's a good idea to create backup copies of your RAFs before doing anything to one set. If you have backups of the originals, you can always make more copies to then work with.

Most RAW Editors can use DNG - it's almost a "universal" format - and good of Adobe to make the Converter free.

You might have a RAW-editing program to use the DNGs in, or download a free one - there are several.

Raw Therapee is free, and quite good, though it does take some learning. There is a "very new" version 3.0, that doesn't seem to be fully stable... But version 2.4.1 is stable, and the Windows version works well.

There's a 35-page PDF 793kb "RawTherapeeManual", under "Documentation" on their site.

Others might have further ideas for free RAW Editors for Windows.

I use Linux, which has quite a lot of RAW Editors - most of those using DCRAW were handling HS10 RAFs very early on. One of the better ones is DigiKam, which has good and detailed processing, does 8/16-bit TIFFs by selection, and has a good processing workflow.

I mention it as it's at present being ported to Windows, with all of the required components included in an "installer package", but just how stable that is, I don't know. The last time we tried it, the install (on XP-Pro SP3) - wouldn't complete. I'll be trying it again shortly, and will report back.

Once DigiKam is fully stable-functional in Windows, it should get a keen following, as while it has an easy-to-use interface to get started with, there's also fine-detail precision adjustments available in each part of the processing.

Dave.

Hi Dave,

Great forum! I just received an HS10 as a thank you gift for 25 years of employment. Thought I was getting an HS20, but hey, the price is right. So far I am happy with the camera.

My Canon camera saves 100 pictures to a folder and then creates a new folder. The HS10 appears to not have folders. This is fine except when I am transferring pictures to my computer it takes a long time to get through all the pictures I have already downloaded.

Do you know of a way to set up a folder structure similar to the Canon cameras?

As others have said, I have learned a lot just from reading this forum. Thanks.

- Don