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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:19 am 
Quote:
be willing to bet the material on the 60d vs the glock material not the same (1200 fps firearm) way off target.


Of course they are not the same, the Glock material is based on nylon but they can both be loosely termed as "plastic".

The point being that using the word "plastic" to try to imply inferior quality is something I would expect a forum member to do while trolling, but a respected camera review site ought to be above that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:56 pm 
I like the Glock reference because when it first came out it was slammed by traditionalists as being inferior. Time has shown otherwise.

I could be wrong but my thoughts on the 60D construction is that it's not cheaper or much lighter than magnesuim alloy but is going to prove tougher and better weather-sealed in the long run. The problem, at the moment, is it's a catch 22 for Canon as they introduce it to the XXD line - which is the prosumer line? A "plastic" camera that is as good, or better, than a metal body! C'mon! :)

So the pendulum will swing one way before it swings back. I believe we will see reviews biased towards underestimation at first, (sorry Gordon), as a glowing review will be viewed with sceptisism. I do believe the 60D review is factual, well researched and Gordon has done a fantastic job.

Once the 60D has proven itself I believe Canon will introduce this body construction into the 7D and 5D on upwards. This may indeed be the "Glock 17" of cameras. If not, it's just a "Super Rebel" afterall !!!

My 2c :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:38 pm 
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Hi everyopne, thanks for your comments.

Concerning the body construction, I hope you'd all agree that in the design and verdict pages I really have tried to explain that while it isn't magnesium alloy, it is really very good.

What I wanted to get across is many people in forums have jumped to a conclusion based only on reading specs and not handling in person. I'd urge everyone to pick up a 60D in person and give it a good feel! It's always personal - and again mag alloy will more likely dent than crack on impact - but I was very impressed.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:16 pm 
I'd be far more tempted to go for the 50d over the 60d. I'm not that bothered about the movie mode, and some websites are selling the 50d now for <£600!

However, I'd really really like to have seen a mention of the Pentax K-7. I was playing with one the other day and was blow away by how good it was.

I know you haven't reviewed it, but a mention surely would have been appropriate?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:44 am 
I just wanted to stop by and say "Gordon Laing i think your review of the 60d is right on time" Great job! As for guys talking about body construction, lol its been a fight but i think Gordon summed it up in his review. Come on guys Gordon put up two ways to look at this in his final verdict, just pick the one that is best for you. :) . I'm not going to start calling out troll, as i feel people should be able to speak their mind even if it offends some one else. As long as it is done an a adult like manner, I like to speak my mind as most of you know. Back to why i stopped by, Gordon great job looking forward to your review of the d7000. cheers :D


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:34 am 
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@99tollap, I can't comment on the K-7 because I haven't seen it. As you may know from our Pentax section, the company doesn't support Cameralabs by sending us products to test.

@AnArKi, thanks for your kind words - much appreciated! I'm glad you understood where I was coming from and that there's two ways of looking at the 60D. I'm very much looking forward to testing the D7000 and will closely compare it against the 60D.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:22 am 
I handled the 60D tonight. I didn't hate the plastic as much as I thought I would. What bothered me the most tonight was the stupid lock button on the mode dial. I don't think I've ever inadvertently turned the mode dial on my 50D and I found the presence of the lock very annoying. It also seems like something that could easily break

Given that, given no joystick control and really generally the very Rebel-ish control layout, I really don't see the 60D as a camera I would ever buy. I don't like the Rebels. I'm not even 100% sure I'd have bought it if I'd never had the 50D. Maybe I'd have been a Nikon girl. The 7D has a more "sound" feel to it but costs too much for my level of photography.

I won't be upgrading cameras any time soon because there is no upgrade in the Canon line for me. When I do upgrade, I'm hoping the D7000 has a better feel, because I don't want to reward Canon's 60D mistake (IMHO) by buying the 7D and I'm not keen on the "Super-rebel"


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:04 pm 
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I can agree with almost every comment here.
I have to say that my 350D feels good, you shouldnt think it will break quickly. Then, I have held the 550D, and I really thought it was less sturdy made, the 350D really feels ''tougher'' than the 550D. So far there will be few comments, because the 550D may feel tougher than the 350D in your hands.
But then, I used the Nikon D200 for a few weeks, and it is better built than the 50D, but it feels way and way tougher and studier than the 350D and 550D. For now I think the 60D will feel like the 350D, but when you held a 50D it will feel more tough.
So it may not be tougher, but a magnesium body feels better (and studier) to me, and is really something else than a plastic body which should be as sturdy.

This whole post is my opinion, so please do not reply with ''I dont agree'' or ''you are wrong''.

_________________
Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:35 pm 
Ruben, ''I dont agree'' & ''you are wrong'' (I retract, you did say "I think") :wink:

I have held the 60D and the feel/construction is much better than a 550D - and dare I say quite close to the 7D. I have to agree with Gordon and say: "while it isn't magnesium alloy, it is really very good" & "I was very impressed" :)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:24 pm 
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I have never enjoyed the handling of the 350,400, or 550 for that matter.
Got a chance to handle a 50D, 60D and a 7D yesterday.
The 50D feels very nice and so does the 60D, I could live with either. The 7D came with the 15-85 and is more substantial camera. Didn`t expect the difference to be that much. I would consider the 7D if my wife is happy with the extra weight and size, she hasn`t handled one yet.

Considering the cost, the 50D is very good value and has the same focus system as the 60D. The extra MP isn`t important for me and neither is video. Therefore I don`t see the point in buying the 60D . Basically I will either buy a 50D or a 7D. The 7D has advantages that I would use and enjoy over the 50D, but at twice the price, I need my wife to be happy with it too.
The difference would buy another nice lens, mmhh 7D with 15-85 or 50D with 15-85 and something like a 70-300 is usm or stretch it to a 7-200 of some sort?


Wonder what upgrades to the body we can expect in 3-5 years time?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:23 pm 
Okay, so the D7000 is out so I head on down to the big box store. Salesman has to go to the back to retrieve one so I play with the 60D until he gets back - Man, it still feels perfect.

I play with D7000 for about an hour. It looks and feels just like a D90. Construction is very good. The only problem I just don't have D90 hands. I was sold on the D90's specs and build and was going to buy one until I handled one. I did not even consider a Canon. My fingers do not wrap around comfortably, and my thumb and trigger-finger to not fall into place with the controls on either the D90 or D7000. My fingers and hands started to sweat as well.

A couple of months ago I played with the 550D, 50D and 7D as a lark and all fitted me better than the D90 - I had never even researched Canon and was going with the D90 on reputation alone. After I began my research I heard the 60D and D7000 were on their way - So I decided to wait.

On paper the D7000 looks to beat the 60D in most respects but for me ergonomically the 60D is so much better. I really like the D90/7000 and have tried to convince myself that it is the camera to buy but I just cannot. In reality IQ, weight, size, FPS, ISO and AF are almost the same for the D7000 and 60D - I still look forward to Gordon's review of the D7000.

BTW, the salesman, a complete rookie like me, played with 60D and D7000 (while I told him the specs for each :D ) and everytime he held the 60D he said "wow, this feels great" - I'm sure just as many say the same for the D7000.

...I do not own any Nikon or Canon equipment so I have no dog in this race - I just want the best DSLR for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:40 am 
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Interesting comments Howzit, thanks.

The D7000 shouldn't be on sale yet in the US, but some stores have started early. Where did you see one?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:28 am 
Hi there Gordon. Yeah, interesting comments to say the least considering a rookie like me has no brand loyalty yet and the D7000 would seem a logical pick. :)

Best Buy, in the USA, is supposed to launch the D7000 on Sunday 17th (tommorow) but some people have managed to purchase them. The store I visited in Des Moines still had them in the back and had not moved them to display yet. The salesman fetched one for me.

To me the D7000 looks and feels like a D90 with no dramatic improvement in grip or thumb indentation. I just could not get comfortable with it. Pity.

So now the question comes down to the "far better specs of the D7000". Other than to say I have the best specked "mid-range" DSLR, what, if any, advantages over the 60D do they offer the rookie? Very little actually as IQ, FPS, ISO, AF, etc. are virtually the same.

Also, if I intend to upgrade later as I find the 7D a better fit than the D300s does it make any sense for me to even consider the D7000?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:32 pm 
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Howzit,

I have a 7D, and just got the 60D about a week ago. I like both, but have to say that if you are only going for one camera you should definitely go for the 7D.

That 8 frame per second shutter speed is very important if you plan to take action shots. All it will take is you missing an action shot with the 60D before you start questioning your purchase.

The flip out screen sounds good in theory, but I'm finding that I hardly ever use it. The lag-time in live view makes hand-holding while using the flip-out screen tough to get a good clear shot. If you're planning on using it for videos, then maybe you might like it.

Anyway, as a back-up camera it's great - and light, which is nice. But there's no way I'd choose it over the 7D.

By the way, I asked the sales clerk for the body only when I bought the 60D, but when I got home realized that he had given me a box with the 18-55 kit lens. He only charged my for the body though...I still don't know if he made a mistake, was hooking me up, or if kit set-ups were all they had. Anyway, I don't think I'll ever use it...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:25 pm 
Quote:
I have a 7D, and just got the 60D about a week ago. I like both, but have to say that if you are only going for one camera you should definitely go for the 7D.


As a rookie to DSLR, the 7D, I feel, it too much for me to start on. It's more complex, bigger and heavier than the 60D and the learning curve is huge. It can be done but I don't think the 7D is the best way to get into DSLR. I like the 550D but it is too small.

I'm interested to hear from a 7D owner who now has the 60D as a backup. Do you consider the 60D a "7D light" or more of a "Super Rebel"?


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