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 Post subject: Sigma SD1
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:22 am 
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From http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/ne ... 21_SD1.htm

Quote:
The Sigma Corporation is pleased to announce the new SIGMA SD1 Digital SLR Camera, incorporating a 46 megapixel (4,800×3,200×3 layers) 24×16mm APS-C X3 direct image sensor.

The SIGMA SD1 is Sigma's flagship digital SLR model, adopting a lightweight yet solid magnesium alloy for its body and O-ring sealing connections to make a weather-resistant design throughout for use in harsh conditions.

The SIGMA SD1 incorporates a 24×16mm APS-C X3 direct image sensor and dual “TRUE (Three-layer Responsive Ultimate Engine) II ”image processing engines. The combination of the 46 megapixel (4,800×3,200×3 layers) sensor and dual TRUE II processing engines ensure the high resolution images are processed quickly with high definition and a smooth and subtle graduation of color.

The SD1 is SIGMA’s latest digital SLR camera which meets high requirements of professional and enthusiast photographers for all types of photography.


Use link above for full details.

This sensor is really interesting! 15MP x3! The sharpness and detail should be really great compared to bayer sensors, although it will be interesting to see what the high ISO performance of it will be like too.

_________________
Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:35 am 
Looks interesting. I hope for Sigmas sake they can sell more of these than previous DSLRs, they have a good lens collection after all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:39 am 
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If nothing else, this new sensor addresses the lack of resolution, but pricing and overall usability will be the big questions potential purchasers will have. This is one where pixel peeping should be really worthwhile :)

_________________
Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Hi folks,

I'm a little surprised that the SD1 announcement hasn't caused more interest. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating, of course, but that 15.3MP resolution (monochrome & colour) Foveon sensor could be sensational. The camera looks OK as well though I'm puzzled why they didn't take the opportunity to improve on the top LCD rather than apparently remove it. :?
Maybe that sensor will also turn up in the DP line from Sigma or even a totally new line?

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Hi folks,

There's this YouTube video of some close-ups of prints made using that 46MP (or 15.3MP with each pixel capturing full colour information) Foveon sensor.

C'mon you Foveon fans. Enjoy. 8)

Bob.

P.S. Someone must have a word with the videographer about hs technique! :lol:

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:29 pm 
Could somebody please explain to me what the sensor means in actual image size terms? As in when you upload a photo to your computer, does it have 46 or 15 megapixels? (Sorry for being an idiot!)

Also, I think they would have had more interest if theyd made this for a Nikon or Canon mount, like the Fujifilms.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Hi Jeremy,

The trick with the Foveon sensor is that each of the 15.3 million pixels produces full colour information. On a traditional Bayer sensor each pixel produces information about only red, green or blue. That means that to avoid too many artefacts you normally have to have an anti-aliasing (or "slightly fuzzy") filter in front of a Bayer sensor and the colour information has to be interpolated for each pixel. Although you can also sharpen the resultant output such a process can never recover all the detail lost by the fact that each pixel of a Bayer sensor is only sensitive to a fraction of the white light spectrum and that you had to put a fuzzy filter in front of the sensor as well.

There's a write up here at Wikipedia which is worth a read as it also covers some of the apparent limitations of the technology. A quick Google search (foveon vs. bayer) turned up this very old preview (from 2002) of the Sigma SD9. Worth checking out just for it's sample images as well as some nice clear diagrams of how a Foveon sensor is organised.

It will be fascinating to see the reviews of the SD1 and how far Sigma has been able to progress the technology since it acquired it a while back. I'd not be pre-ordering an SD1, even if I were in the market for such a camera, until I'd read the reviews but it might turn out to be quite special. On the lens front, Sigma does make some nice lenses as well as some cheaper ones. :P

Update: I spent some time looking for comparisons between Foveon and Bayer images this morning. Difficult to find examples where the test conditions were sufficiently controlled but, of course, one stand out is Gordon's own DP1 review. Check out the results pages for a comparison with a couple of Bayer sensors. The Real Life Noise results are cautionary at higher ISO numbers but the DP1 does produce some excellent results at lower ISO. Those test were done before Sigma acquired Foveon so maybe the extra R&D that Sigma has been able to contribute has done more than just increase the resolution. Only time, and the reviews, will tell.

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:52 pm 
That's some impressive detail shown in that Youtube video. I wonder whether this sensor/camera can become a realistic competitor for the medium format sensors/cameras. If that's the case and the price is more in the regular APS-C/FF range they might open up/create a completely new market segment.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Ben
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When in doubt..... Press the shutter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:40 pm 
I think it's important that cameras like this but I wonder if Sigma is making money on these models. I've yet to hear of anybody using them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:42 pm 
I use them. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:14 pm 
Awesome!

How do you like them? It sounds the most interesting but I'm sure that its technical achievements will get buried under the hype of all the other SLRs. I'll never get to use one, so I'll have to live through you. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:40 pm 
Why do you say you will never get one?...Dont know why would you be interested if thats the case?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:32 am 
Dayum.

I would love to try out Sigma's new camera.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:35 am 
I will never get one because I am already quite invested in the Nikon system and while the sensor and final image of the Foveon sensor cameras is great, I'm not so impressed with the rest of the camera. Also, I do not want to resign myself to using Sigma only lenses and accessories. It's impossible that to say that I won't own one 30 years from now, but not planning on getting one in the foreseeable future.

I'm just curious and fascinated by the alternative technology used. Also, the Sigma cameras don't really get much coverage because they don't have the allure of brands like Leica.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:33 am 
Quote: "I will never get one because I am already quite invested in the Nikon system and while the sensor and final image of the Foveon sensor cameras is great, I'm not so impressed with the rest of the camera. Also, I do not want to resign myself to using Sigma only lenses and accessories. It's impossible that to say that I won't own one 30 years from now, but not planning on getting one in the foreseeable future."


Er, you dont HAVE to use Sigma only lenses and accessories if you get a Sigma DSLR...I only have one actual Sigma lens, a 14mm f3.5 rectalinear ultra wide. I have one odd one called a Sigmatel multi scalematic 135mm f1.8, that might have been made by Sigma, but thats it.
The rest of my lenses are made by Canon, Nikon (manual versions only), Carl Zeiss, Carl Zeiss Jena, Mamiya (M645), Meyer-Optik, Pentacon, Tamron (Adapatall, Tokina, MTO and Vivitar.
So how do I get all these to fit on the SA mount, I hear you say, well, I have converted some to an SA compatable mount (M42, PK or SA), and some are used via adapters.
The Sigma 14/3.5 came with an FD mount so of course I had to convert it before I could use it...I converted it to M42 mount.
The Sigmatel came with a Y/S-C/Y adapter fitted so I bought a Y/S-M42 adapter so I could use that.
Nikon lenses will fit any SA mount camera via the cheap Roxsen Nikon-M42 adapter plus an M42-SA adapter. This adapter combo does not allow infinity focus however, but its fine for Micro Nikkors as you gain a macro magnification advantage.
If you want to use Nikon lenses at infinity on the SA mount you have three options:
1) Convert each Nikon lens to an SA compatable mount. (M42, PK or SA)
2) Get an SD9 or SD10 and the JTAT Nikon-SA adapter. Sadly, the latter adapter only fits the SD9 and SD10, not the SD14 or SD15 and it wont fit the SD1.
3) Convert the Sigma DSLR to Nikon mount...A mount swap kit is available and its a reversable mod.
I have converted the Nikon 35mm f1.4 Ai-S and 105mm f2.5 Ai-S to SA mount so I could use them at infinity but kept my 55/2.8 Ai-S and 200mm f4 LD IF Ai-S Micro Nikkors in Nikon mount so I can use them via the Roxsen adapter plus an M42-SA adapter.
I use Mamiya 645 lenses via a simple to make M645-SA adapter, I made myself.
Here are some of the lenses I use on my Sigma DSLR's and what mount they have:
Sigma 14mm f3.5 (M42)
Tamron SP 17mm f3.5 (Adaptall-M42)
Tokina 17mm f3.5 RMC (M42)
Carl Zeiss 28mm f2.8 Distagon T* (SA)
Nikon 35mm f1.4 Ai-S (SA)
Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.7 Planar T* (PK)
Canon FL 55mm 1.2 (SA)
Nikon Micro Nikkor 55mm f2.8 Ai-S (Nikon F)
Mamiya 645 80mm f2.8 N (M645)
Carl Zeiss 85mm f1.4 Planar T* (SA)
Canon FD 85mm f1.2 L (SA)
Tamron SP 90mm f2.5 Macro (M42)
Nikon 105mm f2.5 Ai-S (Nikon F)
Sigmatel Multi scalematic 135mm f1.8 (M42)
Carl Zeiss Jena 180mm f2.8 "Olympic" Sonnar(P6-M42)
Nikon Micro Nikkor 200mm f4 LD IF Ai-S
Tamron SP 300mm f2.8 ED IF (Adaptall-M42)
MTO 1000A 1100mm f10.5 (T2-PK)
I have others but I dont use them much.
My three zooms are all made by Vivitar but I dont use them much either as I much prefer primes.
As for accessories, I use M42 and Nikon extension rings, M42 bellows, a 2x Tamron SP teleconverter or occasionally a 3x M42 teleconverter. I use three Metz flashguns (40mz3i and 2x 54mz-3), a Cobra D650 flashgun and a Starblitz 1000 Auto Macro Ring flash.
So you see, I'm not limited to using Sigma only stuff at all!


Quote: "I'm just curious and fascinated by the alternative technology used. Also, the Sigma cameras don't really get much coverage because they don't have the allure of brands like Leica."

I dont get the Leica thing at all...Way overpriced for what you get. The M9 is a good example...The SD14 is sharper and just as noisy over ISO320...The only advantage the full frame M9 has is wider FOV for the same lens than a crop format Sigma but the shallower DOF the M9 has is'nt an advantage for landscape shots. Price wise, there is no contest...Getting a Sigma will save you a bucketload of cash :wink:


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