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 Post subject: EVIL rumours abound
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:24 am 
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Hi folks,

With Photokina fast approaching and a worry that the 60D is the only large sensor camera announcement from Canon until 2011 there are some intriguing rumours starting. A number of sites are suggesting that a new Canon EIS 60 (mirrorless or EVIL) camera will have:
  • A brand new back illuminated 22MP 18mm x 12mm sensor (c.f. E-P2 sensor at 12.3MP and 17.3mm x 13.0mm)
  • 12-75mm f/2.8-4 IS Macro and 70-300mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lenses
  • Burst speed of 20fps if a reduced resolution of 5.5MP is used slowing to 6fps at the full 22MP resolution
  • Movies at 1920×1080 30p/24p/25p
  • ISO 100-6400, with extension to 25600 at a reduced resolution of 5.5MP

    Also planned for the future are:

  • An adaptor to allow the use of current EOS compatible lenses with full AF functionality
  • A 5mm f/4 Fisheye
  • An 8-25mm f/4 wide-angle zoom
  • A 14mm f/2 pancake
  • A 25mm f/1.2 pancake
  • A 45mm f/1.5
  • A 65mm f/2.0 Macro
EOSHD has a more complete report here where they also suggest the launch will be in the second quarter next year. Technically I guess this all looks quite feasible but one item stands out for me as being unlikely, namely the 70-300mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens launched with the camera. With a crop factor of almost 2x would Canon launch the second lens for this camera with a full-frame equivalent field of view of approximately 140-600mm? We've also discussed before on the forum whether back-illumination is effective on large sensors, though maybe it might be useful if the sensor has 22MP. I'll leave speculation about the extra cost of producing a back-illuminated sensor of that size to others.

Well, I hope it's all true, and if it is I definitely want one, but it does seem to fall perilously close to the "it's too good to be true" category. What do you think?

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:45 am 
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Historically Canon have done a good job of keeping their secrets, erm... secret. So I'll agree with Canonrumors' take on this, that it is highly unreliable. To me, it is most likely to be someone's wishlist.

Putting that aside, the 70-300 *does* pick up where the kit zoom finishes though, so it makes sense in that way. I have to guess it wont be cheap. In that sense, both zoom lenses sound a little too good to me compared to similar available in m4/3 which is the nearest comparison.

The primes, again sound almost too good to be true.

22MP is unprecedented in a smaller sensor camera, even if the density potential allows for it. This is the hardest part for me to believe. The only way it makes sense is if the system is designed to make heavy use of software correction features, where the higher density would allow less loss of detail in correction, even if it in itself it wont deliver more.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Hi popo,

Like you I'll put incredulity aside for a moment...

I certainly agree that the 70-300 should be an early introduction but I'd guess that one of the pancakes, probably the 14mm, should come before it simply for the marketing guys to be able to claim bragging rights on size, or lack of it.

The pixel density might be a concern but that 3x3 pixel binning for 1920x1080 video could explain the choice. That would require 5760 pixels horizontally and, for square pixels on a 3:2 stills format, one then needs 3840 pixels vertically giving a grand total of 22,118,400 pixels. Each pixel would be about 9.7 µm2 in area. If I've got my sums right that's about half the area of the pixels on the 7D. The 7D is rated from ISO 100 to 6400 with expansion to 12800 so the putative EIS 60 spec, at full resolution, of ISO 100-6400 might be a little optimistic but not madly so.

I reckon that either the creator of the rumour has done his or her homework or the leak is genuine. Probably the former, though I hope not, but if Canon hasn't actually got an EIS 60 on the drawing board they darned well ought to. So long as the quality of construction and ergonomics impress I can see a lot of Canon owners being tempted even if the price is quite high. I'd love the opportunity to have a largish sensor in a small body which also provided me with full AF compatibility with my current lenses. My 70-200mm would effectively double in focal length to a 140-400mm f/4 from what it can do on my 5D2. Given that the current EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM is priced well north of £1,000 the EIS 60 might be quite a bargain even if the high ISO noise tests show a realistic limit of 1600. 8)

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:40 pm 
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Ok, I don't have much of a video hat on for that part, and was thinking very much in terms of stills. It *sounds* good, but I still think it sounds a bit too good.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Hmm. :evil:

The rumour originated here (Googlish from original Chinese). There's an interesting post by "cnlcly " on page 2 of that thread about one third of the way down the page. It seems that the rumour's creator has quite a track history of this sort of thing. Only two months ago he was saying that the new camera would have:
    Exactly the same as CMOS and 550D;
    Use Digic V image processor, improved contrast more focus algorithm can significantly improve the focusing efficiency.
    Bayonet 25-30mm flange distance in between.
    16-50mm/3.5-5.6 IS First matching lens 16-50mm/3.5-5.6 IS
    Complete release of Ring is fully compatible with EF and EFs lenses per second continuous shooting speed of 3.5 support 1080P video
    SDXC slot
Certainly the most recent version of the rumour is much more fun but there's a world of difference between a 22MP sensor and one that's "Exactly the same as CMOS and 550D".

Fun while it lasted and I'd still buy one if Canon made an "EIS 60" as detailed in my original post above. :twisted:

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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