Camera Labs

Nag-nag-nag. My advice; try out the camera first...then the nagging.
Btw while you're at it, buy some plastic numbers and some super glue.
Peel off the "6" and glue on number "6" and "0" and there you have it; yaaay 600D, the successor to 500D before anyone else!
Of all the talk that 7D now is a "much more expensive" upgrade for the xxD owners I have little to non understanding about.
At their releases both 40D and 50D were exactly as expensive as what the 7D is now.

The rants and naggings on Canon all around the internet is nothing new.
It reoccures at every new dslr release from Canon. It's as if that is what Canon owners like to do best besides taking pictures and all the trolls from the Canon haters position are gathering to have themselfs a haters party towards the biggest camera brand in the world - Canon.

I agree though that if my 7D had a tilting screen it would've been pure heavenly taking macro shots near ground level, above the head shots or self portrait.
My feeling for my 7D is beyond love though and I can only accept the fact that you just can't 'have it all'.
The camera manufacturers also wants their piece of the cake.
My 7D will be celebrating its first year now in November and after all I feel that I made the perfect choice. It's a keeper.

An other great feature on the 60D is that you should now be able to reach the setting wheel on the back with your thumb wile holding the battery grip, wich enables you to adjust kompensation or time/aperture wile composing through w/f in standing formats. However I'm not sure yet if the display on the screen is tilting automaticly when you're tilting the camera?

cheers.

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my flickr

Well, the 60D doesn't seem to be too bad - in some ways it's definitely better than the 50D. Maybe the material is different but is that really that important? My 500D had different "accidents" and it didn't break in any way. In my opinion it's a very interesting body.
At the moment, I'd prefer the 7D, especially as it has this great weather sealing but if the 60D's price drops it might be interesting as my 500D is... well... "heavy used" (I didn't count the pictures but I guess I'm somewhere between 60.000 and 80.000 at the moment) and might need a replacement before the 5D3 is released.
I think the articulated screen is very nice. Until now there wasn't a body with one so it's great for those who want that (Using the SX-10 IS as well I'm used to it); for example to protect the screen or for whatever you can use it. It's great the size of the screen didn't "suffer" - still 3"!

Yes, the 60D is interesting. I'll watch the price compared to the 7D...

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Canon EOS 500D + Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Canon EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466

3P-O, on pricing, you can't compare historic prices with current to make a value judgement. The 7D has fallen a lot since its launch. So it is wholly unfair to compare the 50D launch price to it. Of course, the 50D has fallen a lot too, and right now it is quite a bargain at nearly half the 7D cost. It certainly isn't half the camera! Best UK street price for 50D is 2/3 what I paid for one new, and I didn't get it at its peak.

Just for argument, what if Canon did a traditional style 60D? A minor update to 50D to make the 60D, like the difference between 40D and 50D. If the 60D copied the 50D, added the 18MP sensor and video mode with possible resulting slight drop in shooting rate (processing limited), and nothing else, would people be happier? Assume an eventual street price right between the 550D and 7D.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.

@ Bob...thanks for the welcome aboard! And...

There is no doubt that the consumerizing (cheapening) of the 60D makes it less of an xxD family member and I certainly understand the disappointment shared on these pages...as I share some of the criticisms being lauded at Canon as well.

I'm thinking about putting one in my hands, feel/test it out, with my 10-22 and 70-200 f4L, to check it's balance, usability and get back to you all with my review from a high level disability perspective.

FYI...I have a C5/6 spinal cord injury (32yrs rollin so far), am paralyzed from the upper chest down, some arm/wrist/hand function with no finger function. As such, button placement doesn't mean much. I preset everything I need, plan my shots and use a remote release switch to fire the shutter...how you ask...switch between my teeth, tongue to press the shutter release button; you must be creative when your digits don't work

What does bother me about the 60D is the locking buttons of the top and back dials. If they must be pushed/held down to then turn the dial, this may be a problem, I may not be able to use the dials. Because I'm without finger function, this "new safety feature" may have locked me out of using the 60D...bad bad bad Canon

I look forward to your review, if you can, check out this locking button issue and mention it in your review...if it is indeed required to hold down these buttons firmly to turn the dials, I may not bother testing the 60D; you will have saved me some frustration, thank you in advance.

I take my independence very seriously, my injury took much from me, but I still work, drive and shoot. The articulating screen of the 60D looks great, but it won't be in my kit if it takes part of said independence away, the 7D or 5D Mk II/III will be instead.

Regards,

Jerry

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EOS-3(2) & EOS 40D (w/drives), EF-S 10-22, EF 17-40 f4L, EF 50 f1.4, EF 100 Macro, EF 70-200 f4L IS, EF 300 f4L IS, EF 1.4x Extender II, EF 12mm & 25mm Ext Tubes, EX 580 II(2), Bogen supports (tri, mono and super clamps, ball & tilt heads), Kata-84 & Domke Brick10 (storage), Domke F2 (Daily; original/1978)
Dell Latitude e6500, Lightroom, DXO & various plugins; Canon FD Collector - Fav kit, T-90 w/200mm f4 macro, ML-3 Ring Lite...Fuji Velvia 50 (film)

Howzit, new guy here.

I've been researching Gordon's reviews and video's and I kinda like the guy. Very impressed.

I had narrowed my search for my first DSLR to the 550D/T2i and now the 60D looks like the perfect camera for me. I can't wait for Gordon's review and to feel one in my hands before I finally decide. I'm also interested to see how the resin body/aluminum frame compares.

I did some research on launch pricing starting in 2002 with the D60, D10, D20, etc. and the D7, to me is the natural successor to the D50. (if you look at the 60D position as pricing and marketing rather than incremental spec upgrades). Also the 60D as the 'super rebel' or bridge between the lines makes sense to me.

It will be interesting to see how the D90 replacement compares.

To the person who questioned the D700 89% overall rating, remove the value piece and it rates at 95%. (I do this for all the reviews). Remember your value rating may differ to the reviewer's - This makes it cameralabs highest rated camera

Anyway, great site and I am enjoying it immensely!.

Cheers,
Neal

Welcome on-board Neil / Howzit - nice working on the numbers! I do always request that people read the entire reviews, or at least the verdict pages to understand how the camera compares. The numbers are just very basic guidelines and also can't be compared with newer reviews.

Hi StillFingers I am full of admiration for the way you work. I will try answer your question in my upcoming review, or if not will answer it here.

@ Gordon...thank you so much, either way your hands on will help greatly!

I still luv my old film gear, A-1s and T-90s still get used on occasion...the A-1 having some dials that require pushing/holding in/down a button; not easy to use but I manage...

My 1st 35mm camera was a Yashica Electro 35 Rangefinder with a fixed 40mm, got it as a gift from my grandfather in 1970, I was 13 yrs old and was immediately hooked.

In 78' I broke my neck while body surfing. After some experimenting (bless the inventor of the cable release ) I was able to shoot and be creative again...a self-esteem builder that I needed after such a traumatic change of life.

I hope the 60Ds buttons aren't too stiff to push...I would so like to use that articulating screen

Thanks again,

Jerry

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EOS-3(2) & EOS 40D (w/drives), EF-S 10-22, EF 17-40 f4L, EF 50 f1.4, EF 100 Macro, EF 70-200 f4L IS, EF 300 f4L IS, EF 1.4x Extender II, EF 12mm & 25mm Ext Tubes, EX 580 II(2), Bogen supports (tri, mono and super clamps, ball & tilt heads), Kata-84 & Domke Brick10 (storage), Domke F2 (Daily; original/1978)
Dell Latitude e6500, Lightroom, DXO & various plugins; Canon FD Collector - Fav kit, T-90 w/200mm f4 macro, ML-3 Ring Lite...Fuji Velvia 50 (film)

Hi all, I've read through this thread and agree with Gordon being surprised about all the hyperbole around the 60D..I will most likely get this camera, I have a 450D right now. When the price will go down to around 1000 £/€, I think many Rebel owners will look at the 60D as the natural upgrade path -- I think this is exactly what Canon had in mind. Long have I been a bit envious of Nikon and their brilliant little D90, now Canon has their equivalent ready.

For me, the 60D ticks all the right boxes:
- tilt screen (it may seem flimsy, but you'd be surprised about how much more unique the perspectives of your photos will be)
- full movie suite
- way higher fps than the Rebels (5fps is good for most situations)
- better AF

No micro adjust AF is a bummer..but I can also step back, manually focus or recalibrate my lens. It's not the end of the world.

Also, the smaller, plastic build may put ppl off, but when going out to shoot or traveling, weight is a definite issue for me. Having a handy Rebel is so much nicer than packing a big 7D/5D setup.

I'm curious how this camera will be like to work with, looking forward to Gordon's review!

PS: respect for StillFingers' independence and creativity. You humble us all!

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Okay, guys...

Just doing a quick bit of research and came up with the following rough approximations:

Camera Launched RRP Price Now

550D Feb '10 £800 £600
50D Aug '08 £1200 £600
7D Sep '09 £2100 £1200
5DII Sep '08 £2300 £1700

60D Aug '10 £1100 £1100

As far as I am concerned there are a couple of conclusion that can be drawn from this:

Would you buy a 550D or a 50D for the same price? Okay, the 50D is 2 years old and has just been replaced (sort of!), but it is still an excellent "prosumer" camera.

The 'upgrade' from 'consumer' 550D to the 'prosumer' 60D involves spending ALMOST DOUBLE the money at the moment, whereas the 'upgrade' to the 'pro' 7D is only a little bit more.

The RRP of the 60D is slightly LOWER than that of the 50D when it was launched, seemingly confirming its place as a slightly down-market member of the xxD line.

Who would buy a consumer-biased 'prosumer' 60D at the moment while the much more capable and professional 7D is hardly any more money?

I think much of the disappointed reaction to the 60D can be resolved into two camps:

1. The xxxD users who want to upgrade. For these people the leap in price is just prohibitive at the moment, but this will drop in the future. How long it takes to reach the price point where people will start to "jump in" in numbers remains to be seen. What is likely to disappoint them most is the time delay before they can afford the camera.

2. The xxD users who want to update. For them the 60D can be seen as a downgrade in quality to a more consumer-oriented body when they were hoping for an upgrade to a more pro-oriented body (maybe inheriting some of the 7D's features), but at the same approximate price point as previous xxD's. For these users it is not an attractive update, leaving them with an upgrade to the 7D (and the approximately 50% increase in eventual cost) as the only option. These are the users who lose out the most - Canon's vast army of 'prosumer' enthusiasts who see the end of the line and only an expensive upgrade or a disappointing update ahead.

The actual digits on the camera body are completely irrelevant. Canon had bodies in the £500, £800, £1800 and £3000+ categories, the fact that the were numbered according to the xxxD, xxD, xD and 1D convention just helped guide people. In general, when Canon brought out a new body in each of its price points that body was better and more sophisticated than the previous version, but still targeted at the same class of user and the same price point. With the 60D this convention has been broken, leaving many people confused and angry.

Looks like I will be trading in my 40D for a 7D and waiting a couple of years for the 5D3 to be released and its price to drop to sensible levels.

Nick

Nick, you answered your own question.

Here's my take:

If you go back to 2002 the D60 was priced at around $2100 and has steadily droped in price as each new upgrade has been released.

10D $1900
20D $1700
30D $1500
40D $1400
50D $1200

The Rebel line on the other hand has remained at around $800.

There is now a convergence so a new camera and a price drop from $1200 for the 60D brings it into Rebel territory. Hence the $1100 "Super Rebel" with lesser features. The 7D then makes perfect sense as the 50D upgrade. Also, the 7D's successor will still sell for around 2002 prices ($2100) - Not so bad when you think of it that way. (and I'm guessing this is Canon's logic too).

The +$1000 price also makes it a direct competitor to the D90 so this positioning makes sense too.

My 2c

It's a pity yes. Then again...on how many Canon lenses do you really have to adjust the front/back focusing?
I've tried it some with 2 of my 6 Canon lenses plus on a Tokina Pro macro but I've ended up putting the adjustment back to zero again.
I only made them worse! Maybe I'm exceptionally lucky with the autofocus on my lenses but that's just my own experience.
Or perhaps they will change slightly with time? Then it might be a very nice feature to have.

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my flickr

Howzit,

I have answered the question of what I, myself, will probably do (although this is not certain).

However, you are still missing the key difference between upgrade and UPDATE.

Yes, the 7D does make sense as an UPGRADE to the 50D (but at nearly double the price I would hesitate to say perfect sense), but it is a tough sell as an UPDATE. The 60D is a more price-equivalent UPDATE to the 50D, but from some points of view it can be seen as a DOWNGRADE.

I am in the lucky position that I can afford to trade up to the 7D if I so choose (heck, I could afford a 1D if I felt like it - justifying it would be a different problem!) The trouble is that I am being FORCED to do this if I want to update my prosumer 40D body.

My plan was to update to the 60D, not upgrade to the 7D, assuming the 60D followed the previous pattern of a similar body with a better sensor and more functions at a similar price. If I had wanted to upgrade to the 7D I could have done that ages ago and been shooting with that body for a while. The extra cost of the 7D means that it seriously erodes the money I have 'reserved' to buy an additional (full frame) body.

I agree that the trend for the mid-range xxD bodies has been a gradual drop in price, but this has not been at the expense of the prosumer credentials. In the 60D's case it seems that certain 'pro' features (most notably the metal body) have been sacrificed in order to add features that appeal to the consumer end of the market, such at the tilting LCD. To all those advocates of plastic bodies I ask: if they are so good, why don't pro cameras have them?

My 2p!

Solorider I don't think you should buy an APS-C camera if you are already saving up for a fullframe.

Unless you have a good job that is.

Hi SoloRider,

To be fair to Canon the 60D press release refers to the 60D as "replacing the EOS 50D" rather than being an upgrade or an update. I think Canon could have avoided what might be regarded as a minor PR fiasco if they had 'fessed up to their intention to split the semi-pro APS-C line into two strands (60D and 7D) back when the 7D was announced rather than let current 50D owners believe there was something better than a 50D but cheaper than a 7D just around the corner. They might even have sold more 7D bodies as a result.

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

agun,

For the record, I find the APS-C 40D very useful for aircraft and motorcycle photography due to the 1.6x focal length multiplier. However, I find it rather a drawback for landscape and portrait work. Also, I have a number of EF-S lenses that only work with APS-C, hence the desire for both types of bodies. FWIW, yes- I do have a very good job (and no kids), thanks!

Bob,

I think you are right with that assessment. I, for one, would probably have bought a 7D earlier rather than wait for what is now the 60D

Nick