Free Shipping on ALL Products
camera reviewsbest cameraslens reviewsphotography tipscamera forumvideo toursphotography bookssupport me
It is currently Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:32 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 124 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:59 pm
Posts: 6009
Location: The Netherlands
I found myself trying to do this a couple of weeks ago. Here are my results:
F/4.5, 30 secs, ISO 800 18 mm
Image
F/3.5 30 secs ISO 200 18 mm
Image

_________________
I take pictures so quickly, my highschool was "Continuous High".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:52 pm
Posts: 275
love the colours is that natural ?

how much photoshop?

_________________
ImageCanon 50D || Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 || Tamron 17-50 f2.8 || EF 50mm f/1.4 || EF 35-105mm f/4.5-5 USM || 430EX II w/wireless system flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:59 pm
Posts: 6009
Location: The Netherlands
Just some whitebalance shifting. The light pollution of my town gave me the nice red glow :)

_________________
I take pictures so quickly, my highschool was "Continuous High".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:13 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Northern California
I've been doing a little reading and read through this entire thread. My question is, what's the difference in ISO setting? What's the difference between ISO 100 Vs. 1600? (I'm using a Canon Rebel XS, so that's as high as mine goes). Also, What about the function Long Exposure Noise Reduction? I noticed that the photos in this thread were mostly ISO 800 and higher, but how come on this thread http://www.cameralabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17875 ISO is around 100?

No matter how much I read, I can never seem to understand 100% how ISO works.

_________________
Hello, my name is Jay.
----------
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 42
Location: The Netherlands
As far as I'm aware, ISO setting is simply the gain used when converting the information from the CCD/CMOS chip to a digital RAW file. The more the pixels are amplified (more gain), the brighter the image will be. Of course the noise will be amplified as well.

For the moon shots you saw in the thread you linked ISO 100 was sufficient as the moon is a much brighter target than you might think, especially trough a telescope. For nebula an ISO setting of 800 to 1200 seems to be about optimal.

The one thing I myself am not entirely sure about is what the ISO speeds themselves mean. They appear to be a relic from the analog age, this means the ISO speed for one chip is the same for another chip. But to do this you would need to use different actual gain values to achieve the same ISO speed. A 15 megapixel full frame sensor will have relatively large pixels, making it quite sensitive already meaning no need for a very high gain to achieve the same ISO speed. Somebody else will have to confirm this last paragraph though...

"Long Exposure Noise Reduction" is most likely a post-processing algorithm inside a digital camera that can be turned on or off. Like all post-processing this can be done after taking the picture on your computer assuming you have the RAW file.

_________________
--Zoeff
Panasonic GH2 user
My photos can be found on flickr.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:13 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Northern California
Zoeff wrote:
As far as I'm aware, ISO setting is simply the gain used when converting the information from the CCD/CMOS chip to a digital RAW file. The more the pixels are amplified (more gain), the brighter the image will be. Of course the noise will be amplified as well.

For the moon shots you saw in the thread you linked ISO 100 was sufficient as the moon is a much brighter target than you might think, especially trough a telescope. For nebula an ISO setting of 800 to 1200 seems to be about optimal.

The one thing I myself am not entirely sure about is what the ISO speeds themselves mean. They appear to be a relic from the analog age, this means the ISO speed for one chip is the same for another chip. But to do this you would need to use different actual gain values to achieve the same ISO speed. A 15 megapixel full frame sensor will have relatively large pixels, making it quite sensitive already meaning no need for a very high gain to achieve the same ISO speed. Somebody else will have to confirm this last paragraph though...

"Long Exposure Noise Reduction" is most likely a post-processing algorithm inside a digital camera that can be turned on or off. Like all post-processing this can be done after taking the picture on your computer assuming you have the RAW file.

So in a nutshell, people use lower ISO because the moon is a bright enough source of light? :D

_________________
Hello, my name is Jay.
----------
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 42
Location: The Netherlands
Indeed, no need to amplify all that noise when there's a good enough signal (enough light) that you can work with. :)

_________________
--Zoeff
Panasonic GH2 user
My photos can be found on flickr.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:31 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:30 pm
Posts: 9784
Location: UK
Hi folks,

It's been a while since I dabbled in astrophotography but my own inclination was to use ISO 400 when shooting a sequence of long exposures intended for stacking later on. In a DSLR all the ISO setting does is to change the gain of the readout amplifier(s) so setting the ISO too low risks losing the signal while setting the ISO too high risks clipping the brightest objects while not improving the signal to noise ratio of the faint stuff. But if one is shooting an area without any comparatively bright objects (compared to the main target object) then maybe experimenting with a higher ISO would be worthwhile. :?

As for long exposure noise reduction, turn it off. You can take "darks" at any time that's convenient provided the camera temperature is about the same whereas taking 8 minutes to do every 4 minute exposure in a sequence risks losing shots unless you are blessed with reliably clear skies. :roll: I also prefer the option of doing dark frame subtraction during post-processing as one has better control and potentially better tools.

Bob.

_________________
OM-D E-M1 + ED 12-40mm f/2.8, H-F007014E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75mm 1:1.8, L-RS014150E.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:13 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Northern California
I decided to experiment last night. I was doing it in an area of much light so the light pollution is obvious. I just wanted to see what I might have been able to produce. I was quite shocked too. Here's what I was able to get.

Image

Its very interesting because the camera detected stars that the naked eye couldn't even see. I also messed around with the ISO. The higher ISO, the more stars appeared.

Interesting stuff. And I have to say, it's quite addicting!

_________________
Hello, my name is Jay.
----------
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 42
Location: The Netherlands
AP is indeed quite awesome. You can't tell your eyes what to do, but you do have complete control over CCD chips.

If you look closely at each individual star, you can even see the rotation of the earth. :D

_________________
--Zoeff
Panasonic GH2 user
My photos can be found on flickr.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:57 am
Posts: 129
Location: Sydney, Australia
Quick question...what kind of shutter speed are you guys using?
I find that anything over 4s results in noticeable star trails, in contrast to the 20-30s that you guys have been using. This means that even with a f1.8, ISO 3200 im having trouble getting a full starfield.

I've tried stacking with Iris, but it doesn't do all that much, just reduce the noise a tad (im probably doing things wrong though...), and actually reduce the number of stars..

_________________
» Nikon D90 | Nikon D7000 + MB-D11 | Nikon 18-55mm VR | Nikon 17-55 f2.8 | Nikon 80-200 f2.8D | Nikon 35mm f1.8 | Nikon 50mm F1.4 | Sigma 85mm f1.4 | Nikon SB-600 | Think Tank UD-60


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:56 pm
Posts: 42
Location: The Netherlands
How bad are the star trails? All images of this type show some degree of trailing. Even the resized shot posted above has slightly oval shaped stars.

_________________
--Zoeff
Panasonic GH2 user
My photos can be found on flickr.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:08 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:30 pm
Posts: 9784
Location: UK
.
There's a formula and a handy table here. Note that the lens focal lengths quoted in that table are the 35mm film equivalents so if you were using a 25mm lens (actual focal length) on a camera with a crop factor of 2x you should enter the table at 50mm.

The arithmeticians can take the formula a bit further, of course, and calculate the exposure time needed to trail a star at a particular declination by an arbitrary fraction of the inter-pixel distance for their particular camera... ;)

Bob.

_________________
OM-D E-M1 + ED 12-40mm f/2.8, H-F007014E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75mm 1:1.8, L-RS014150E.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 12:48 pm
Posts: 7999
Location: UK
Rather than calculate it, I'd just try it and see what works in practice. The wider the angle you go, the more time you can take before trails start moving. Do note the stars move at different rates across the sky, and in different directions too if you're wide enough e.g. as you move away from the equator the stars will curve in different directions. With stacking, I think this gives an effect where parts of the image are sharp but other regions get slight trailing. This is less of a problem if you image a relatively smaller area.

Roughly speaking, at 10mm on crop sensor 30 secs is ok, but at more typical wide angles of 16-18mm I prefer to drop down to 15-20 secs or so. I find it incredibly difficult to get pin sharp focus with ultra-wide angles so the misfocus helps hides trails a bit.

_________________
Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:57 am
Posts: 129
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oops. Its my tripod's fault. (Also mine in a way..). I normally shoot out my window, and I don't have enough room to fully extend the legs. One of the clamps is loose, and it shifts. Tightened it up, less 'star trails' now. :oops: :oops:

I get about 8s exposures now, a big improvement

Quick picture of what it was like before:

Image
f/1.8, 5s, ISO3200 (NR enabled)

_________________
» Nikon D90 | Nikon D7000 + MB-D11 | Nikon 18-55mm VR | Nikon 17-55 f2.8 | Nikon 80-200 f2.8D | Nikon 35mm f1.8 | Nikon 50mm F1.4 | Sigma 85mm f1.4 | Nikon SB-600 | Think Tank UD-60


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 124 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

All words, images, videos and layout, copyright 2005-2012 Gordon Laing. May not be used without permission.
/ How we test / Best Cameras / Advertising / Camera reviews / Supporting Camera Labs

Webdesign by Alphabase IT
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group