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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Official launch is supposed to be tomorrow, but it appears someone was a bit early. Video seems pulled (I didn't see it) but extracts are floating around.

http://photorumors.com/2009/11/09/ricoh-gxr/
http://43rumors.com/ft5-the-ricoh-gxr-is-here/

So what's new? The "lens" includes the sensor in one package. The "body" no longer holds the sensor. That means no chance of dirt from changing lens, but you will have to pay for a new sensor with each lens? Pricing looks scary! If you thought m43 was bad, look away. Then again, it is smaller still, so less is more.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:47 am 
video is here http://dslr-links.blogspot.com/2009/11/ ... amera.html

It might not sell as well as other system, but this system is very innovative. It is the first multi format system, and the size is incredible, it is smaller than Canon G11.

Potential Leica X1 killer. (especially when they release equivalen 35mm).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:55 am 
This is extremely interesting. I really like the concept, not sure how useful it is in practice though. I've noticed that they put different sensors with different lenses, I can see the usefulness of this but what happens if you want one lens with a sensor other than what they give? I'm not sure how big Ricoh is in this area, but I hope that they have the backing to produce enough accessories/lenses to make this system worthwhile.

Thanks for posting this popo!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:21 am 
I have my doubts about this. I don't know how much of the total cost of a camera is made up by each of its components. Maybe a sensor isn't that expensive a component (any more?) making this system commercially feasible.

But the great advantage of an interchangeable lens system like DSLRs and μ4/3 is that when you have made considerable investments in lenses you can upgrade the performance/IQ of your system by upgrading the body with a newer sensor and faster processor. With this system the lenses will never be able to increase their performance apart from maybe a little increase in speed/quality resulting from a faster processor/better firmware algorithms with a new body. This will limit the lifespan of these lenses compared to other exchangeable lens systems similar to the limited lifespan of a compact.

It will depend somewhat on how good the images are that these lenses are currently capable of producing and how adequate they are for most of its target audience in the long run and how soon these people will want more out of their camera.

But to me it seems that these lenses come with built-in obsolescence.

I think I'd favour a μ4/3 camera.

Ben
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:54 am 
It's officially here.

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/

The lens units apparently also contain a processor leaving only the screen/viewer, controls/connections, flash(mount), storage and battery in the body.

Ben
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:27 am 
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Hi folks,

An interesting concept but I was puzzled when I saw that the Photography Bay GXR write-up suggests that of the two initial lens plus sensor units available the 50mm f/2.5 Macro is $830 whilst the 24-72mm f/2.5-4.4 VC is $440. You might expect the zoom the be quite a lot more expensive than the prime especially as it features shake reduction and the prime doesn't.

The reason for the price difference is the sensor, as the 50mm unit includes a 23.6 mm × 15.7 mm CMOS sensor with a crop factor of 1.5 whilst the zoom includes a 1/1.7-inch CCD sensor with a crop factor of 4.7 (source: PDF Brochure).

Is this flexibility a strength or a weakness? Time, and the market, will tell but it's certainly different. :?

Bob.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:49 am 
Bob Andersson wrote:
Is this flexibility a strength or a weakness? Time, and the market, will tell but it's certainly different. :?


That's what I am wondering too. It would be very frustrating to have a downgraded sensor just because that's what Ricoh decided to bundle with the lens that I happen to need.

I'm not designing any cameras but I think it wouldn't have been a big compromise to the form factor if a lens mount was built into that interchangeable unit. That would make it a mini medium format style camera only with the medium format bit. I suppose it's a lot easier to sit here and complain.

I hope it does well though, I want to see more innovative cameras like this.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:30 pm 
It seems to me it's mainly about keeping the size down. A small zoom lens needs a smaller sensor. But with the current two lens units I wonder whether it wouldn't be simpler to just buy two cameras. The S10 zoom unit has a pixel density of 25Mp/cm² and a rather limited 24-70 (2.9x) zoom range. The Panasonic LX3 for instance has a pixel density of 24Mp/cm² and a 24-60 (2.5x) zoom range. Pretty close.

The A12 50mm prime unit has a pixel density of 3.3Mp/cm². Well... The Sigma DP2 for instance has a 41mm lens and a pixel density of 1.6Mp/cm² (extra low because of its unique Foveon sensor) and is also quite small.

The two together will cost you less than a GXR body with two lens units. No need to change the lens. Just pull out one camera for one purpose and the other for the other purpose. You'll have to carry the second lens unit with you with the GXR system too if you want to use them both so bulk-wise there's not much difference I imagine. And when you're not alone two people can shoot photos where only one can with a Ricoh GXR.

A Canon G11 has a pixel density of 23Mp/cm² and a much bigger zoom range although somewhat bulkier and heavier than a GXR/S10 combo but I imagine the right combination of two complete cameras might be a realistic alternative for the GXR concept. With the current line-up of lens units and prices at least. That might change over time.

It'll probably find its niche but at the moment I doubt that it will ever achieve a much wider acceptance.

Not that there is anything wrong with serving niche markets of course. On the contrary.

Ben
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Hi folks,

UK pricing courtesy of Amateur Photographer:
    Due out on an unspecified date in December, the camera will cost £419 (body only). The 50mm lens unit will be priced £600 and the 24-70mm unit, £330. The VF-2 will cost £219.99.
On another tack, the GXR measures 113.9x70.2x77.1mm when fitted with the 50mm f/2.5 lens unit (source). In comparison the Panasonic GF1 measures about 119x71x61mm when fitted with the 20mm f/1.7 (35mm equivalent focal length of 40mm) pancake lens (source). Weights are pretty much the same but in its favour the Ricoh does have a slightly larger sensor (1.5x crop factor vs. 2x). But then the 20mm (40mm equivalent) GF1 would seem to be both cheaper, at $899, and more flexible than the 50mm (equiv) GXR with the body at $549 and the lens plus sensor at $830.

So I'm a little confused over the rationale behind the GXR, at least in it's 50mm guise, but it is good to have choices so I hope it does well. There's a GXR microsite which you can view here.

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:44 am 
people tend to compare 50mm f/2.8 macro with 20mm f/1.7, i think it is more appropiate when you compare it with gf1+leica 45mm f/2.8 macro.

Almost the same price $830 vs $899 and both are macro with different max aperture and focal length, but Leica 45mm seems to be a longer lens.


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