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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:55 am 
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Enche Zein wrote:
is the preorder means that they will take our money first and ship later? or they just kept our info until the product is available, then they charge?


In the case of Amazon, it's the latter; they don't charge until they are ready to ship.

And as long as I'm posting, re: your other question:

Quote:
guys, what do u think about m43 after pen and gf1 and some new lenses + roadmap, is this system worth investing?


For micro-budget video productions, the GH1 can't be beat. Not even by the 7D, unless you already have some Cannon glass that you can use with it (which, granted, a lot of the folks who read/post here probably do). But then, if you're comparing the GH1 and 14-140 kit lens to the 7D body only, that's no longer an apples to apples comparison.

Long story short, if you do a lot of video work on projects with budgets that max out in the tens of thousands of dollars or less, I don't see any reason for you to not jump on the m4/3 bandwagon and buy a GH1.

For stills, that's an entirely different matter. My main concern here has to do with what Panasonic's business strategy seems to be. i.e. they seem to be viewing Olympus' m4/3 offerings as their competition (note how the GF1 is touted as an E-P1 killer, or how Pany intends to bracket Oly's m4/3 17mm lens with their own 14mm and 20mm lenses.) when in fact Pany's competition is Canon, Nikon, Pentax and every other non-m4/3 camera out there. More specifically, Pany should be targeting users who are looking to move up to an entry-level DSLR like the XSi or K200 or D5000, etc. They should also be trying to up-sell users who are looking at compact superzoom/bridge cameras like the SX1 or HX1 or LX3, etc.

Long story short, unless Pany realizes that 50% of a large market is better than 100% of a small market, I don't see the m4/3 platform ever growing beyond a niche.

Mark


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:21 am 
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I'm not sure about Panasonic following/attacking Olympus. After all, they did get the G1(H) out first on the platform, and arguably with finite development resources resulting in the GF1 being a bit later than the E-P1, but not by a huge margin. The small time difference is not enough that the GF1 can be considered a reaction to the E-P1, likely they were both planned at similar times and you can't do last minute radical changes.

Any talk of competition between EP-1 and GF1 are more down to discussion sites such as these. At the end of the day, if you want a particular sized camera, you're going to end up with very similar things as there's only so much you can vary.

Growth of the system isn't down to Panasonic alone, but Olympus also. The platform is still very young, so it will take a bit of time to build up in volume, which helps prices drop, which helps sell more. Gaining that momentum is key. Prices need to get at least comparable to similar specification entry-level DSLR, arguably a little lower in general once the "new toy" premium wears off.

_________________
Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:05 am 
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popo wrote:
the GF1 [and] E-P1, likely they were both planned at similar times and you can't do last minute radical changes.


True, But IMO instead of competing against each other, Pany and Oly should have been communicating with each other from the beginning to avoid an overlap in their product lines like what we have now.

Of course, it's quite possible that Pany did try to work something out and were rebuffed by Oly, in which case, I'm placing the blame on the wrong party. But the circumstantial evidence seems to indicate otherwise.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:57 am 
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How much space do you think is out there for different models to exist? To me the overlap between the E-P1 and GF1 are not too close, as there are a fair number of significant differences. Maybe in future generations when both add even more features they will start to be be more similar.

_________________
Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:03 am 
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I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. IMO based on the number of other entry-level DSLRs (and lenses for them) and compact superzoom and bridge cameras that Pany could have chosen to compete with, the fact that they instead chose to put out a camera (and lenses) that are so similar to Oly's ONE m4/3 camera (and prime lens) is... disappointing.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:41 am 
no doubt they are competing, but in the same time, they are also supporting the same system.

btw GF1 and E-P1 is not as the same as it looks like, for example the IS on body and lens, and then the lens compatibility. Also the practically aspect (AF speed, control, etc).

ideally m43 should be destination for compact users who want to upgrade.
but now it is not as practical as compact yet.

Thom Hogan, veteran wildlife shooter, is pretty disappointed in E-P1
here is his review and it is pretty interesting. He uses Nikon system for ages.

http://www.bythom.com/olympusep1review.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:03 am 
Panasonic, "LUMIX GF1 debut event" held in Yokohama

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... google.com

many pictures including side by side GH1 and GF1 with ext. viewfinder.
Some lenses including prototype 100-300mm, 8mm fisheye, etc


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:38 am 
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Hi everyone, ahead of our upcoming GF1 review, we've published High ISO Noise results comparing it against the Olympus E-P1 and Canon PowerShot G11:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon ... oise.shtml


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:49 am 
That doesn't look good to G11 :roll:

I wonder if a G1 with video capabilities (similar to GF1 or even just 640x480) will be released... i mean, a new firmware and a mic would do it, no? Or a GF1 with the G1 screen... ...i also liked the dials on G1...

GH1 seems too expensive when compared with non-MicroFT rivals... for the two thirds of GH1 price you can get a Canon EOS 500D + EF-S 18-55mm IS + EF-S 55-250mm IS or a Nikon D5000 + AFS DX 18-55 GII + AFS DX 55-200 G... ... or a G1 with 15-45mm and 45-200mm (there is a bundle for half the GH1 price) ... for the average consumer that is looking for something else with more quality than a compact sensor powered camera it's just too expensive...

I think i'll save up for a G1 (i just love the body and buttons layout) or maybe a GF1 (because video is handy sometimes and EVF is expendable with such nice screen, but lets wait for another lovelly review :D), they both have enough quality for me...

Considering that the only camera i had was a VERY old Nikon SLR (N90 or F90 or something like that, i might be wrong, was a heck of a camera with autofocus) what would guys suggest? I messed up with some Sony superzoom compacts and a Canon DSLR but didn't like the image results of the superzoom (the pour thing was screaming at ISO 400) and DSLRs always look and feel too heavy and big (specially with those bulky lens).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:13 am 
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Hi everyone, I've just completed my full review of the Panasonic GF1!

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panas ... x_DMC_GF1/

Gordon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:06 am 
I haven't read your review yet, but I really like my GF1. It feels great in the hands, the lenses are excellent, and it has the fastest contrast-autofocus around.

The 20mm 1.7 is amazing.

The only disappointing thing for me is that ISO 1600 is not very good. When my Nikon D90 can give usable 3200 files, you'd think GF1 could master 1600.
(OK, it really should have had in-body IS also, admitted. Dang. Why can you never have it all? :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:29 am 
(I'm the same person as Stobblehouse, I just decided to make an account in my first name instead.)

I'm getting the new super-wide zoom 7-14mm 4.0. According to SLRgear.com, it's amazing.
Though the price is also amazing! This is one of the times I'm happy I don't smoke or drink, so I can afford nice things like that!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:41 am 
Gordon wrote:
"Shooting with the GF1 and 20mm took us back to the Seventies and Eighties when we used manual 35mm SLRs with nothing more than a 50mm lens. Back then we didn’t miss a zoom, and it’s amazing how liberating it can still be today when you’ve become used-to adjusting your focal length."

Yes!
When you have a zoom, you love it. But when you use a prime, you find out how much attention you have used, apparently, in thinking about pictures in many different focal lengths at once. One can think much quicker with a prime.

Also I found out that I can take sharp pictures at 1/15 second with the GF1 and the 20mm, even without stabilization! It surprised me. That and F:1.7 goes a long way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:07 am 
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Hi Eolake, welcome on-board! The 7-14mm is a really nice lens - I used it during my GH1 review, along with the 14-140mm.

Do you use the EVF with the GF1? I bet you could hold it even more steady pressed against your eye...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:08 am 
Gordon Laing wrote:
Do you use the EVF with the GF1? I bet you could hold it even more steady pressed against your eye...


I've heard that said, but for me personally, I don't think so. I like composing on a screen and have my viewpoint and hands freed up from where my face happens to be, and also it feels like I strain a bit more holding against my chest and face, which can't help.

... I just made a little testing of the thing... there is no clear difference. On all slow shutter times (1/8 to 1/30) with unstabilized 20mm lens on G1 holding either way, I get sharp or not-quite sharp pics, seeming depending on luck. (So it seems its essential to take like three pics on dicey shutter times).

----
BTW, the 14-140 is a wonderful range to have in one lens, but how does the lens hold up optically against the two lenses (which are sharp) which otherwise cover that range?


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