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 Post subject: L10 vs. FZ20 pics
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:24 pm 
Hello Lumix followers,

Please note that I have started a similar thread on dpreview.com but since I have recentlly discovered Gordon's website I feel I should share my comparative information here as well. Thanks Gordon for providing this!.

(Scroll down for pics/links…)

My beloved FZ20 plunged lately face down from about 3 feet, and I can guarantee you it’s not shock proof. The repair would be $300, a new used one on e-Bay about $200, so I’m on the market for a new camera.

I have my eyes on the upcoming L10, with all its pros and cons, because I believe it will be the best entry level DSLR and I can afford it. So was the FZ20 (best ultra-zoom) at that time…

Recently Panasonic posted a few sample pictures from the new L10, and my surprise was to realize that I took the same pictures (in Greece) about 2 month before with my FZ20.

I will let you be the judges…For the blue chapel shot, which is a very popular shot off the beaten tourist Santorini – Oia path I used a tripod to get the best picture possible. Check the EXIF info and tell me if I could have done anything better (you don’t really have to…).

http://picasaweb.google.com/podula/Phot ... 7791524306

FZ20, without PP, ISO 80, f/8.0, 6 mm (wide), 1/500 sec., OIS On, tripod, July 10 2007 5.30 PM

http://picasaweb.google.com/podula/Phot ... 0043613682

L10, ISO 100, f/10, 30 mm (zoomed in), 1/320 sec., Sept. 14 2PM


You can download the full size pictures for pixel peeping here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/podula/PhotoCameraShopping

My conclusions:

• FZ20 shows noise at IDEAL conditions in the water and sky
• Will it show in 4”x6” prints? - NO WAY!
• Is L10 better? – FOR SURE!
• In ideal conditions, is a DSLR better than a compact? – BETTER BELIEVE IT!
• Will I buy an L10? – I’ll still wait for other’s opinions (dpreview, cameralabs, et. al.)


Hope this helps!


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 Post subject: Panasonic Lumix DMC-L10
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:30 pm
Posts: 9833
Location: UK
Hi Polex,

A warm welcome to the Camera Labs forum.

Thanks for an interesting post. My understanding is that the official Lumix DMC-L10 price is around £900 (less the usual retailer's discounts). Congratulations on having a healthy budget! What attracts you to the Lumix compared to some of the other 4/3rds. offerings? Going wider, have you already concluded that the 4/3rds. system is the way you want to go?

Sorry to bombard you with questions on your first post. :roll: You have obviously already started looking at various previews for the L10. There's nothing on this site yet so in the meantime have you seen this preview over at Trusted Reviews?

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:02 pm 
Thanks Bob for your answer and link!

By budget I meant that I plan to charge the camera cost as "business expense" so if it's a bit more expensive, the taxman will get less at the end of the year ;-)

I feel that 4/3 system is a good compromise in term of image quality and lens sizes, also being specially designed for digital. In the end, you can even attach other lenses by using system conversions adapters sold on E-Bay for as low as $25. They may not ensure 100% compatibility (maybe auto-focus not supported) but still offer an alternative.

I may still consider Olympus E-510 which I like because of the sensor stabilization. However, that would not be that important since I'm not planning to buy many lenses. My ideal set-up would have the new 14-150mm Lumix/Leica lens and one more macro lens (maybe an external flash too). I don't want to expand my system more than that with external battery grip and such. If I stick to the kit lens, I expect to be better than other competitive lens kits.

I also really like the articulated LCD with hybrid focus for low ground shots. I crawled on my knees so many times to get a shot that's really ridiculous.

I just don't get something, quote from Trusted Reviews:

Quote:
One thing that definitely flags the L10 as an entry-level model is the range of beginner-friendly features including five scene programs on the main mode dial, as well as a scene mode, although this only has five settings. As well as these of course it has full manual exposure, aperture priority, shutter priority and program auto, with program shift available by turning the front input dial.


This is so wrong! I believe that this could make the camera a good tool in the hands of a soccer/hockey mom as well as in the hands of an advanced user, and it's a great marketing feature. By the same criteria, any automatic car is targeted to beginner drivers. The flag in Trusted Reviews article is a checker winner flag, not a surrender white flag.[/i]


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 Post subject: five scene programs...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:30 pm
Posts: 9833
Location: UK
Polex wrote:
I just don't get something, quote from Trusted Reviews:

Quote:
One thing that definitely flags the L10 as an entry-level model is the range of beginner-friendly features including five scene programs on the main mode dial...

Yes, I think that "five scene programs" remark was unnecessary. I have some scene programs on my EOS 40D but I think you would be hard pushed to make the case for that being an entry level model either. It costs virtually nothing to include these features so why not?

Polex wrote:
By the same criteria, any automatic car is targeted to beginner drivers.

[offtopic]
Hmm. The Bugatti Veyron has a semi-automatic "flappy paddle" gearbox. Perhaps it's only meant for second year drivers? Now, where's that lottery ticket? :lol:
[/offtopic]

Keep us posted with regard to the new camera.

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:10 pm 
Thanks, I definitely will.

Alex


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 9975
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
Hi Polex, good to welcome you on-board here!

I'm really looking forward to testing the L10 - I've long believed in the benefits of Live View, and the natural extension to it is of course to have an articulated screen - just like Olympus' original model!

I also believe Panasonic have got many of their features and user interface concepts spot-on and the only thing they're really lacking now is a decent, low noise sensor / image processor. So hopefully the L10 should combine decent design and features with good quality. I am however a little concerned at the initial RRP, as it's higher than true budget models. We'll have to wait and see how it performs in practice and what kind of price it becomes available for. I also hope the new Leica kit lens performs well...

I do wonder if the L10 is the 'successor' to the FZ50 though, or if they'll continue this line... it's now the oldest in its range...

Gordon

PS - I agree about the scene presets comment. I'd only say the presence of scene presets means it's not a top-end professional model. For example, Canon don't put them on the 5D or 1D models, but as Bob says, there's nothing entry-level about the 40D!

PPS - it's not a hands on preview, but we did post a news analysis when the L10 was announced here:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panas ... x_DMC-L10/


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 Post subject: Comments?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:32 am 
Gordon and Bob,

Thanks for your comments. I'm playing the devils' advocate now, but have you looked at the pictures I linked? How much difference do YOU see in an 3+ years old technology vs. the latest (plus one class higher)?

To be honest, if my FZ20 was still working I would have not been here looking for advice and second opinions, but just for fun...


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