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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:13 pm 
Hi Fred,


Seems like the price battle has already begon in Europe.

You can pre-order them from 389€ (587$) up to 449€ (678$) but the thing that I don't like is that you have to pay the full amount in advance so I will resist (for now).

I've just done a conversion about that 25/30fps issue

http://luc.dommel.be/panasonic/25fps.avi

http://luc.dommel.be/panasonic/30fps.avi

Just can't believe it that I almost find nobody mentioning this on the web.

regards,

Luc


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:40 pm 
As far as I know the PAL vs. NTSC thing is nowadays mostly a broadcast aspect because most/all DVD players and TV's sold today can handle both formats. Quite possibly you can play an NTSC DVD on a DVD player attached to an old and purely PAL TV because I think the DVD player can read the NTSC DVD and output a PAL signal.

Which would explain why this really isn't an issue any more.

Ben
_________________
When in doubt..... Press the shutter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:24 pm 
Hi Cam-I-Am

You are right about that but I want to make something clear and that is that NTSC is alot worse then PAL, resolution and colour wise.
I actually don't know what happens if you play a 30fps NTSC on a CRT tv since they follow the 50Hz mains. (-> 25fps interlaced signal)
I guess with the LCD and Plasma's that will no longer be an issue.

I used to work at a company that starts with an S... and is well known for TV's. We called NTSC -> Never Twice Same Colour
The funny thing is that the more expensive the DVD player is the less option you have regarding formats, zone's etc

Well another advantage of the Z28 is that it will record in HD-ready format and yes it seems that the worldwide standard is 30fps.
Another vote for the Z28 it seems.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:01 am 
Hi, What a great Thread, I'm in a similar boat to you Fred.

I also like the option of being able to zoom in a movie as it adds that slightly more professional look to a movie clip.

Anyway my main complaint is why cant these types of cameras have a manual zoom ring on the lens as if you ask me that’s the best way to zoom as you don’t then need a motor, no motor noise to worry about, more ergonomic and user-friendly and you can zoom at any speed you like! Take for example the Fujifilm S6000fd/S6500fd. The only problem is although this camera has this great design method of zooming the quality of the actual movies I’ve seen from reviews look very poor otherwise I’d have already have bought one of these by now.


Regards
Jim


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 Post subject: Camcorders...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:00 am 
JWalford wrote:

I also like the option of being able to zoom in a movie as it adds that slightly more professional look to a movie clip.

Anyway my main complaint is why cant these types of cameras have a manual zoom ring on the lens as if you ask me that’s the best way to zoom as you don’t then need a motor, no motor noise to worry about, more ergonomic and user-friendly and you can zoom at any speed you like!.....the quality of the actual movies I’ve seen from reviews look very poor otherwise I’d have already have bought one of these by now.


End of the day digital cameras, as discussed on this website, are primarily for still shooting...the video recording again is a nice add-on as it provides compact cameras with greater flexibility.

Personally, I only shoot video as a secondary option if I want to capture the sound & atmosphere of "the moment" or a 360 degree shot and is not an essential metric IMHO for choosing a particular model/camera.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:57 pm 
luke-san wrote:
Hi Cam-I-Am

You are right about that but I want to make something clear and that is that NTSC is alot worse then PAL, resolution and colour wise.
I actually don't know what happens if you play a 30fps NTSC on a CRT tv since they follow the 50Hz mains. (-> 25fps interlaced signal)
I guess with the LCD and Plasma's that will no longer be an issue.

I used to work at a company that starts with an S... and is well known for TV's. We called NTSC -> Never Twice Same Colour
The funny thing is that the more expensive the DVD player is the less option you have regarding formats, zone's etc

Well another advantage of the Z28 is that it will record in HD-ready format and yes it seems that the worldwide standard is 30fps.
Another vote for the Z28 it seems.



Actually in the digital video world PAL vs NTSC is a non-issue, everything is just MPEG of one form or another. PAL & NTSC are ways of encoding vidoe in the analogue world, MPEG is a way of encoding in the digital world...

However frame rates are a different matter, mostly you get away with playing the 30fps at 25fps and everyone moves a little slower!


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 Post subject: Reply to Jim
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:17 am 
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Location: Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, USA
JWalford wrote:
I also like the option of being able to zoom in a movie as it adds that slightly more professional look to a movie clip.

Anyway my main complaint is why cant these types of cameras have a manual zoom ring on the lens as if you ask me that’s the best way to zoom as you don’t then need a motor, no motor noise to worry about, more ergonomic and user-friendly and you can zoom at any speed you like!


Hi Jim,

Welcome to the FZ28 thread! I like your idea of a manual zoom ring. It seems like a simple way to solve a lot of problems. If the motorized zoom on the FZ28 turns out to be too noisy and/or has a limited range of zoom speeds, we should submit suggestions on the Panasonic website.

The very fact that the FZ28 can zoom at all in video mode is apparently due to the complaints Panasonic received about the FZ18. This is good, because it shows that Panasonic listens to their customers! That means there is good reason to keep hope alive. :)

Fred

_________________
Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:09 am 
Quote:
If the motorized zoom on the FZ28 turns out to be too noisy and/or has a limited range of zoom speeds, we should submit suggestions on the Panasonic website.


Good idea Fred. I was giving this some more thought and given that the FZ28 is quite a bit smaller than the likes of the Panasonic FZ50 or Fujifilm S6500fd a manual zoom ring may not be as easy to use as two buttons or a toggle lever. A zoom ring can be nice to use on a big lens which is what I've been used to. When I get my hands on a FZ28 and see how it performs I'll know if a zoom ring would have been appropriate. One advantage of a motorized zoom with buttons or a toggle lever is you can zoom slowly at a constant speed but this can be tricky for some people with a manual zoom ring.

Anyway I need to stop going on about this and let others talk about other aspects of the FZ28.
Jim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:19 pm 
Interesting thread, I'm wondering if I should buy the FZ28 myself, but today I saw this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08081 ... 2000hd.asp
And now I'm not so sure, what do you guys think of the FinePix S2000, could that change your mind about the FZ28?

Take care
bentn


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 Post subject: Reply to bentn
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:09 pm 
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bentn wrote:
Interesting thread, I'm wondering if I should buy the FZ28 myself, but today I saw this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08081 ... 2000hd.asp
And now I'm not so sure, what do you guys think of the FinePix S2000, could that change your mind about the FZ28?


Hi bentn, and welcome to the thread! I read the S2000 specs in the link you posted and noticed a few things I thought were interesting.

The S2000 has zoom bracketing, which takes 3 pictures in quick succession at 1x, 1.4x, and 2x magnification.

The S2000 also has a dual shot mode, which takes 2 pictures in quick succession, one with flash and one without.

Unlike the FZ28, the S2000 does not allow you to zoom while shooting video.

Right now, I'm not tempted to change my mind just yet. Specs are tantalizing, but it's better to base buying decisions on thorough tests and detailed reviews (like you will find here on Camera Labs).

Best wishes,

Fred

_________________
Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject: Re: Reply to bentn
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:33 pm 
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fwchapman wrote:
Hi bentn, and welcome to the thread! I read the S2000 specs in the link you posted and noticed a few things I thought were interesting.

I just noticed some more interesting things about the S2000. The S2000 doesn't zoom out quite as far as the FZ28 (only 15x instead of 18x). The S2000 runs on four AA batteries, whereas the FZ28 uses a proprietary lithium ion battery pack.

On Amazon.com, the S2000 currently lists for about US$400 but is already on sale for US$300, with a release date of September 20. In contrast, Amazon lists the FZ28 at about US$400 with no sale price and no release date. The Amazon price for the older FZ18 is holding steady at around US$300, which means the news of the FZ28 hasn't caused the price to drop just yet -- I suppose that won't happen until the FZ28 is actually released.

Question: Aside from price and availability, what are the pros and cons of Li-ion batteries vs. NiMH batteries in digital cameras?

Fred

_________________
Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:12 pm 
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fwchapman wrote:
Amazon lists the FZ28 at about US$400 with no sale price and no release date.

WOW! I checked Amazon again a few hours after my previous post, and there's been a significant development: The FZ28 is now available on Amazon for about US$390 (with free shipping in the continental US) from the seller Vann's!

I'm may still wait for the reviews before I decide whether to buy the FZ28, the FZ18, or something else. When I am ready to make a purchase, I will do it through the Camera Labs partnership with Price Grabber -- that way, Camera Labs receives credit for the referral, which provides some financial support for this truly wonderful website! Here are the Camera Labs partnership links to current FZ28 sellers and FZ18 sellers on Price Grabber.

Fred

_________________
Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:06 pm 
I've just read the review of the LX3 at http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews_ ... mc_lx3.php

I think it uses the same ccd and venus iv processor.
I must say, combine the things that I read and saw on that review and combine that with the lens of the FZ18/FZ28 and I am absolutely sold.

I couldn't really checkout iso/noise but it seems that it is better with the new venus thingie.

Be sure to check the video quality of that movie file. I've played it on my TV using my mediacenter and the image is amazing.


I can see Fred can barely wait to get it, this review might just push you over the edge.

regards,

Luc


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 Post subject: Reply to Luc
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:54 pm 
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luke-san wrote:
I can see Fred can barely wait to get it, this review might just push you over the edge.

Luc, you've got me figured out -- I want this camera real bad! I'm not quite over the edge, but that review did secure my loyalty to Panasonic. :) -Fred

_________________
Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject: Useful feature
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:35 am 
fwchapman wrote:
The S2000 also has a dual shot mode, which takes 2 pictures in quick succession, one with flash and one without.


That would be a useful feature though. I've taken several flash shots and then realised the flash created too many highlights in the foreground and shadows in the background. I then need a non-flash version of the same shot. Do any of the Panasonic Lumix's have this feature?

I wonder if Digital SLRs have a similar feature. At weddings; the professional photographer uses the flash all the time.

fwchapman wrote:
Question: Aside from price and availability, what are the pros and cons of Li-ion batteries vs. NiMH batteries in digital cameras?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion - Lithium Ion Batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_hydride - Nickel Hydride - NiMH Batteries.

Cost & availability are the NiMH Battery's only main advantages; the downsides include high discharge rates compared to Lithium ion...


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