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 Post subject: Re: compares
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:50 am 
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dalethorn wrote:
Where you will *really* see the difference between the LX3 and FZ28 etc. is in the images, particularly when you have to edit the images, and especially when you crop them. The quality from the tiny 1/2.33 sensor of the FZ28 will deteriorate rapidly, whereas the LX3 will hold up much better. More to the point, though, the LX3 will be an ideal pocket landscape camera, and the FZ28 a superzoom camera - and there's no comparison at all in the target audience/application.

dalethorn, thanks for your views, which I found so compelling that I decided I would get the LX3 instead of the FZ28 after all -- until I saw some compelling FZ28 demo shots on these websites:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-c ... MC-FZ28/p5 (FZ28 ISO performance)
http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-c ... MC-FZ28/p6 (FZ28 detail & lens performance)
http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-c ... MC-FZ28/p7 (FZ28 exposure evaluation)

http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0080.htm (dazzling artistic FZ18 photos!)
http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0088.htm (sharp colorful FZ28 photos)
http://artzen2.com/artzen2-0087.htm (FZ18 vs. FZ28 at high ISO)

I'm impressed by what I'm seeing from the FZ28, and it is a noticeable improvement over the FZ18 (which was rated as the best superzoom available when it first came out). Seeing what people are doing with the FZ28 has cured me of the desire to run out and get the LX3. :)

You are an experienced and knowledgeable digital photographer, and I respect that greatly. It's very likely that as a total newcomer to digital photography, I don't see the flaws that you see when you look at the same pictures I do -- but that's really my point -- I'm not yet at the stage where I can appreciate the difference in performance between the LX3 and the FZ28. I might be convinced by side-by-side comparison shots, but aside from that, I already like what I see from the FZ28. I think it would be a great first camera for me, and I think it's performance is more than adequate for photographs which will be posted on business-oriented websites. Do you agree?

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


Last edited by fwchapman on Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:47 am 
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Hi folks,

There's a user review of the LX3 here. Rather short on product shots but there are some sample images to look at.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject: Reply to Bob
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:36 pm 
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Bob Andersson wrote:
There's a user review of the LX3 here.

Bob, thanks so much for posting the link to this review, which has helped me make my decision: I've concluded that the LX3 is perfect for my application, and I plan to get it instead of the FZ28. I explained my reasons in a comment I left on the reviewer's website.

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Hi Fred,

Please please give us some feedback when you get the camera. I hope it's everything you want it to be. 8)

By the way, I'm sure you have realised that fast apertures are important in conjunction with the small pixel size of a compact camera's sensor. In order to avoid diffraction softening you need to use a wider aperture than with a DSLR. Thinking particularly of your landscape shots, because smaller sensors enjoy inherently greater depth of field using a wider aperture doesn't cause the shallow depth of field you would expect from a DSLR. Check out the articles here and here for the background

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject: LX3 and FZ28
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:52 am 
There's no comparison between an LX3 and an FZ28. The LX3 has no zoom per se (1.2 power based on binocular spec) versus approx. 10 power for the FZ28. But on the opposite (wide) end, the LX3 has a *much* larger CCD, so will do much better with landscape detail. I'm buying the LX3 as a companion to my TZ5 - I wouldn't consider it as an *only* camera.


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 Post subject: Reply to Bob
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:47 am 
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Bob,

Thanks for your encouragement about my choice of camera. Once I have an LX3, I plan to share my impressions and experiences with it here.

Thanks also for pointing me to those articles -- I've bookmarked them both. On the same website, I found lots of digital photography tutorials on a wide range of topics -- thanks for pointing me to such a goldmine of information!

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


Last edited by fwchapman on Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LX3 and FZ28
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:58 am 
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dalethorn wrote:
There's no comparison between an LX3 and an FZ28. The LX3 has no zoom per se (1.2 power based on binocular spec) versus approx. 10 power for the FZ28. But on the opposite (wide) end, the LX3 has a *much* larger CCD, so will do much better with landscape detail. I'm buying the LX3 as a companion to my TZ5 - I wouldn't consider it as an *only* camera.

Hi dalethorn,

I totally agree -- the LX3 is not a general-purpose camera by today's standards. What the LX3 does, it does very well (according to some tests and reviews I've seen). I like the whole philosophy behind the LX3. It's a camera designed for a specific purpose, and that purpose happens to be exactly what I need for my business.

For my personal needs, I am still thinking of the FZ28, but not right away. I really like the TZ5 as well, and I would get that instead of the FZ28, except that I like the full manual control on the FZ28.

I imagine that most of the time, the Intelligent Auto mode on the TZ5 does such a good job that manual control is really not needed. Do you ever wish the TZ5 had manual control? If you were buying a camera to replace it today, would you buy another TZ5 or would you get the FZ28 instead?

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:23 am 
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I found this interesting discussion on the LX3 design, features, versatility, etc.:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=28786830

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject: CNET Asia Review of LX3
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Here's a nice review of the LX3 on the CNET Asia website:

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/digitalcam ... 04p,00.htm

I was very pleased to read the reviewer's comments on the LX3's built-in flash: "The onboard flash unit was one of the most powerful we've seen in a point-and-shoot. The output was well balanced as it did not bleach skin tones or underexpose the background."

I also like the TTL hot shoe on the LX3 and have found some fine TTL flash units (from Metz, Olympus, and Panasonic) which should work with the LX3.

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:47 pm 
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Hi Fred,

I'm pleased to have helped, even in such a small capacity. By the way, DPReview is not a friendly site to us here at CameraLabs as they actively block links to us - rather rude of them IMHO. We don't reciprocate but I personally try to avoid linking to them as it doesn't seem fair to Gordon.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Bob Andersson wrote:
By the way, DPReview is not a friendly site to us here at CameraLabs as they actively block links to us - rather rude of them IMHO. We don't reciprocate but I personally try to avoid linking to them as it doesn't seem fair to Gordon.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for letting me know about the situation with DPReview. I wasn't aware of this history. It's sad, because it's the photography community which suffers from this kind of animosity. Gordon can take it as a compliment -- if DPReview didn't feel that CameraLabs was stiff competition, they wouldn't bother to block us, eh? In the future, I won't post links to their site from here.

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:50 pm 
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One of the reasons I'm choosing the LX3 over the FZ28 is that the LX3 seems better suited to indoor photography, which I expect to be my main business application. Over in the FZ28 thread, we started talking about indoor photography techniques, especially as they would pertain to the LX3. I guess that topic really belongs in this LX3 thread, so I'd like to raise those questions here.

The LX3 has a larger aperture and bigger pixels than the FZ28, both of which suggest that the image quality should be high in low light. I've been advised that it's better to work with available light than rely too heavily on a flash for indoor photos -- for example, by shooting at higher ISO or by putting the camera on a tripod and using a longer exposure. Given the design of the LX3, can techniques like these give good results without an external flash?

The CNET Asia review I mentioned in another post said that the built-in flash on the LX3 is actually quite good. This may be another reason to refrain from running out to buy an expensive pro-grade TTL flash for the LX3.

Would anyone like to offer any general advice on how to make the most of indoor shots with a camera like the LX3? When would you really need to use a camera-mounted external TTL flash?

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Dear All,

After some very thought-provoking discussions in the FZ28 thread, I've reconsidered my decision to get the LX3. I've decided to go with my original choice and get the FZ28 after all. The LX3 is unquestionably a very fine camera, but the FZ28 will be a better all-around first camera for me.

Now that I have a more precise understanding of my business needs (e.g., shooting non-moving subjects, mostly indoors, in good lighting, using a tripod), I am confident that the FZ28 will more than suffice for pictures which will be displayed at standard web resolutions (e.g., 1 MP). Besides that, the FZ28 is available now, and at a significantly lower price than the LX3.

Thank you all for bearing with me during the agonies of the decision-making process! :)

Fred

P.S. If any of you do get the LX3, I'll look forward to hearing all about your experiences with it, and the features that most attracted you to it.

_________________
Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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 Post subject: LX3 test
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:54 am 
I've posted my test pics of the LX3 -vs- the smaller-sensor TZ5 at luminous landscape's user critiques. I think you'll see that the advantage of a larger sensor and all the hype that Panasonic and others put out is mostly that - hype. If I can borrow the new Pana 14.7 mp camera with the 1/1.7 sensor, I can bet it will make much better images than the LX3.


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 Post subject: Re: LX3 test
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:18 am 
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dalethorn wrote:
I've posted my test pics of the LX3 -vs- the smaller-sensor TZ5 at luminous landscape's user critiques. I think you'll see that the advantage of a larger sensor and all the hype that Panasonic and others put out is mostly that - hype. If I can borrow the new Pana 14.7 mp camera with the 1/1.7 sensor, I can bet it will make much better images than the LX3.

I hope I don't violate any forum policies, but I thought people would find it useful to have a link to these photos:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/ind ... opic=27713

For the pictures taken under good lighting (sun behind the camera instead of in front), I really couldn't see any difference between the quality of the LX3 image and the TZ5 image, even viewed at 100%. That speaks well of the TZ5, doesn't it?

Fred

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Frederick W. Chapman: Consultant & Scientist @ F.W. Chapman Solutions / Expertise in Web Design, Digital Imaging, E-Learning, Math & Comp Sci / www.fwchapman.com

Cameras: Oly E-P1; Pan G1, FZ28, LZ10 | FT Lenses: Oly 50mm f/2.0; Sig 18-50mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8 | MFT Lenses: Pan 20mm f/1.7, 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6, 45-200mm f/4-5.6


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