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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:16 am 
I have been working on a video comparison for these two cameras.

Just got back a little while ago from the nightime comparison shoot.

Video Quality:
I've quickly reviewed the AVCHD video files for each of these two cameras on my computer, and its a mixed bag of results.

Remember the Pansonic only does 1280x720, and the Sony does both 1920x1080 and 1440x1080, so there is more information in the sony streams than the Pansonic, so is this even a fair comparison - well yes, Pansonic made a choice to limit their video resolution so this is what we got to compare it to.

AVCHD Artifacs:

I notice there are plenty of artifacs in the TZ10's AVCHD files, where the HX5v's AVCHD files had less artificats and a smoother look. By Artifacs I mean the square blocks of pixelation appearing in the video clip for what ever reason.

The HX5v's clips appeared muted in contrast between light and dark spaces where the TZ10 attempted to have more zing between light and dark, but again, the artifacs are a concern. I'll know more when I get the video streams in my editor for comparing the clips side by side.

Battery Life:
The Panasonic totally had more battery life over the Sony, even with GPS turned on. Again, the video depth may be consideration here, the Sony is processing 1440x1080 bits of information, where the panasonic is only processing 1280x720 resolution.

I actually went through one full battery, plus another 2/3rds of battery life on the Sony to Pansonic's 1/4 battery drain (with 3 bars left). Yes, Sony used a full battery plus 2/3rds of another one, to Panasonic's mere 1/4 drain on its first battery. Both had their GPS settings on.

That kind of battery performance may be the critical deciding factor for someone looking to take photo/video for longer periods of time (all day at the zoo) vs. the issues of video/photo quality. A bad shot is better than none if the battery goes too quickly that is.

So, now I've got the major project of editing the footage together and publishing a reviewable video survey of my efforts for today's side by side video /photo comparison survey of the Panasonic TZ10 vs. Sony HX5v.

It may be better to view two youtube video's in their own windows, vs. me having putting two Picture in Picture video streams side by side in one video (which will reduce the size of each by 1/2 . But perhaps both versions could be made available.

Sony also had a lot of focus hunting, but that may be due to the AF mode settings. Both cameras were set to their Intelligent modes.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:25 am 
For the Panasonic TZ10 forum:

It took a while, but I've finished editing Part 1 of the side by side video comparison video and am about 1/2 way through of the vidoe rendering process.

I'm using Video Vegas (both v9 and v8 ).

For most of the morning, Vegas 9 couldn't handle rendering the two AVCHD formats (with two resolutions remember - TZ10 - 1280x720, HX5v - 1440x1080).

Also, the TZ10's AVCHD had artifacs in its original clips, which could have also caused Vegas 9 to freeze during rendering.

I was reluctant to use Vegas 8 (32bit version) because Vegas 8/9 are incompatible with each other, so the entire video project of vegas 9 would need to be re-edited from scratch in Vegas 8. Big issue.

I've had to revert to Vegas 8 on occassion when a particular render may not work with Vegas 9, and luckily, this appeared to be the case with Vegas 9.

The Sony AVC codec didn't work in both versions, they froze up during the rendering, particularly when two clips where to be transitioned into each other.

So what was left (to stay with the reasonable sized MP4 file size, was MainConcept codec in my render options in VEgas 8.)

So, that worked, funny thing is the "flickering and artifacs" from the original clip appeared to be "resolved" using the older version of vegas.

At the end of the day, what will probably be most starking in the two clips is the light streaking with can no way be resolved by the editing process.

Panasonic's TZ10's totally has the light streaks, and I've written an email to their help desk asking for an explantion, without any response so far.

I'm curious if a fix could be made using a firmware update?

IN any case, the Sony HX5v had superior video quality - but remember, its source video is already at a higher resolution of 1440x1080, where the TZ10 is 1280x720.

I elected to render the dual video comparison video in 1440x1080, which may effect the true impression of the TZ10's video ability (except for the light streaking).

After posting the side by side video clips, I'll then re-render each of the two clips separately, in their native sizes and those then could be viewed side by side in two separate video player windows - if possible.

Now that I have a workflow template, and doable rendering process working, I'll move into the other scenes which include more on the light streaking, and nightime performance of the cameras.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:54 am 
Panasonic TZ10 vs. Sony HX5v Side by Side Video Test
Part 1: Centennial Park, Atlanta, Georgia
Image

This is Part 1 of a multipart side by side video series I'm preparing for these two cameras. Other scenes will be at night, and using the alternate recording formats.

The most drastic differences is between the day with bright light reflections and night with bright lights hitting the two cameras, and the reaction of the lenses to these conditions.

Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if9AWGAL33E


Last edited by MikesMultiMedia on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Location: Pasadena, CA
Nice work on the video footage and thanks for all the work being out into it.

I took some pics with my HX5 this past weekend and also noticed that all pics have much less contrast, they look much more washed out was a comment I got a few times, then the Panasonic images I am used to.

The same as in the video. the ZS7 footage is much more colorful, has more contrast as compared to the HX5 video.

I processed a few images from the HX5 in PS and added some contrast and the pics look much better, richer after wards.

So , I have to evaluate if I want to switch to the ZS7 or go for something completely different like the FZ35 or a entry level DSLR.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:53 pm 
Hi,

Does anyone know if the ZS7 handles as well as the ZS3 when it comes to heavy bass or really loud music (ex: a Rock concert).

I know the ZS3 handles heavy bass and loud music great with very little distortion (from videos uploaded on Youtube).

It's very hard for me to get my hands on a ZS3 right now (probably because they're being phased out by the ZS7). I like the improvements to the ZS7, but will go through the extra hassle of acquiring a ZS3 if the audio can't hold up at a show.

Thank in advance for your help!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Welcome on-board AngryChairRapture!

Great question, but one I can't answer as the camera's gone back to Panasonic for the moment, and I rarely get the chance to attend concerts. Does anyone have any footage they can share?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:32 am 
Panasonic TZ10 vs Sony HX5v Side by Side Video Part 2
Part 2: Around Centennial Park, Atlanta, Georgia
Image

This is Part 2 of a multipart side by side video series
I'm working on to compare these two camera's video performance.

Here is a frame capture showing the light streaking at 6m12 seconds:

The HD (1440x1080P) video is now available on youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCCw0al3G6Q

It may take some time for all the resolutions to be available for viewing.

See Panasonic TZ10's Light streaks at:

1) 1:00 - Cars passing by, reflections off bumpers, chrome, etc.
2) 3:30 - Pan left to right by park gate, sunset
3) 4:17 - Zoom out from inside park, sunset
4) 4:33 - By the Centennial Park sign, sunset
5) 5.28 - Walking shot along sidewalk, sunset
6) 6:45 - Walking shot along sidewalk, reflection off distant building
7) 7:09 - Pan, Let to Right across roadway, reflection off distant building
8) 7:28 - Repeat of No 7 above, different view
9) 7:40 - Walking shot along sidewalk, reflection off distant building
0) 7:57 - Another Walking shot, different angle, reflection off distant building


Last edited by MikesMultiMedia on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:50 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:47 am 
@mamuco:

Yep, the Sony HX5v's photo performance is pretty un-impressive. I mean during the day - its doable, but under testy conditions (low light, fast action, not really sure) The nightime performance was pretty bad, compared the the TZ10.

Just like you said, the TZ10 has (or panasonic in general) has a better photo like quality to their images, the contrast is nice, and robust. Where the Sony HX5v simply looks bland, and as you mentioned, can be reworked in a post production manner - but come on, is that what we really want to be doing at the end of the day before we email some photo out?

The TZ10's video is also a bit more contrasty than the Sony's, but the depth of sony's shades seem to be more desirable at the end of the day. Again, its shooting at 1440x1080 not 1280x720.

In fact, some of the pixelation, and light flickering experienced in the original AVCHD footage was resolved by my editor - during my video compare rendering process.

But one thing for sure, the light streaks are a total bummer.

I'm not prepared to trade off decent photo quality for the superior video quality in the Sony HX5v. Like I said, I'll probably wait another 3-4 months for Panasonic to upgrade their TZ10 to another flavor of HD, at least 1440x1080 - come on Panasonic - especially when your competition is completely going HD.

The could have had a winner.

Sony's batter issues are the last nail in their coffin for me, I figured I could just sacrafice the photo quality and just keep the sony, but I'll be worried all the time about battery life, and the extra battery management issues when recharging.

If Panasonic didn't have the light streaks (beam me up scotty), I'd keep their TZ10 and work with the video resolution in post production. But as you've seen in your own video's the light streaks are insane!!!

I had the opportunity to fully exagerate the light streaking in my sample footage, especially in the GA Aquarium section. There was a typical sunset shot you would love to have at the end of your video, and instead of the sun slowly going down in the distance, you have spoke beaming into your living room through the light streaks.

The FZ35 is an entirely different size group of camera, and I've got my Nikon D3s on standby for lugging around. I suppose the medium size cameras are perhaps a natural evolution to somebody going from a pocketable camera and up.

I guess if I'm going to have to lug something around over my shoulder, may as well be one of my Nikon's SLR's.

Panasonic's Audio:

By the way, I did notice the Panasonic's audio is very nice, has a nice robust sound to it, especially compared to the Sony HX5v which sounded tin cannish. Also, the Panasonic placed its mics near the top center of the camera, instead of the far top left as on the sony - which has a tendency to get covered by your left hand thumb.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:05 am 
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@MikesMultiMedia

would be great if one could combine both cameras somehow.

Panasonic want have any changes until January 2011, when they usually come out with the follow up cameras.

So one has to decide between good picture or good video it seems.

I have checked out the FZ35/38 also and while a much larger form factor. the light streaking on it might be helped by adding a filter. Can't add anything to the Sony HX5 or TZ7 lenses.

See this sample I found on Vimeo and suggestions

http://www.vimeo.com/8634101
"Hey! I know your problem. Luckily, it is very easy to solve! Just purchase a DMW-LND46 ND-filter which screws on right to the lens barrel. You can also use a DMW-LA4 adapter (letting you add filters and lenses) and a DMW-LND55 filter which gives you a 55- instead of a 46mm filter. 90% of the glare should vanish! "

Might be a compromise in terms of video quality...

In the meantime I took a few pictures with the HX5 and you can see them and the EXIF data here
http://mamuco.com/gallery/HX5Test


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:36 am 
@mamuco:

Your HX5v Gallery:

Checked out your pics, after a while, you can get used to the okay shots. I think what helps is having the pics side by side so you can see the difference. Darn, now I'll have to create a side by side of the photos as well, thanks for the extra project work -- ha ha.

Filter Idea:

I was wondering if a filter would work, I thought of purchasing one or using something I had laying around and just holding it in front of the lens at the times I needed to prevent the reflective light streaks issues.

I've already boxed up the TZ10, and will just have to wait. I want to personally write to panasonic to tell them how dissappointing their product was - so promissing, but something so basic - lens problems on reflective surfaces? Especially when sony has successfully dealt with the problem.

If I really need the camera before next January, I must confess I'd be inclinded to go with the Panasonic because of the unimpressive photo quality/performance of the Sony HX5v. I mean, these little devices are first - cameras - you know, ha ha.

I'll also wait to see an actual demo of somebody using a filter in front of their TZ10 before I'll reconsider the purchase at another time.

As it stands now, I would have wasted what ever on the shipping charges, but in principle, I can't just settle for the defects in the TZ10. And that is what I'm calling it, a lens "DEFECT."

I mean, a doctor doesn't buy a scaple, and when the scaple arrives dull and not sharp, he just doesn't settle for that and uses it. These are basic photographic needs, and Panasonic just doesn't seem to be able to deal with it.

Sample Vimeo Clip re: Light Streaks:

I totally love the video in your link which demonstrates the effect when filming water. I mean talking about finding the sweat spot of the defect.

My side by side series isn't just finding the light streaks, and videoing it only. I was fair by actually engaging in typical video taking moments, and typical angles, and usage. And during those occasions, is when the light streaks appear. To hunt them out and only show those, well that is another way to show what happens.

But even in my typical video angle usage, the light streak occurred very frequently.

Can't wait to put up the night time shots.

I have a similar one on water, but I was filming ducks, again, a typical situation, gone bad by light streaks.

Panasonic's Official Response?

I hope Panasonic gets back to me with an official response, I wonder what they will "technically" call it - Lens Flaring? Or if they get defensive, they may say that it was user invoked - that is, the user should not point the camera into the sun, or some other excuse.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:59 am 
Panasonic TZ10 vs Sony HX5v Side by Side Video Part 3
Part 3: CNN Corner, Atlanta, Georgia
Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series
comparing these two camera's video performance.

Of particular interest is how the Panasonic is Plagued by Light Streaks,
where the Sony has managed to overcome this difficiency.

However, Sony HX5v had poor low light performanced as compared to the Panasonic TZ10 in the areas of brightness of image, and ability of the autofocus to find objects.

The HD (1440x1080P) video is now available on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpPzasUxw9I.

It may take some time for the all resolutions to be available for viewing.


Last edited by MikesMultiMedia on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:18 am 
Panasonic TZ10 vs Sony HX5v Side by Side Video
Part 4: GA Aquarium Sunset, Atlanta, Georgia
Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series
comparing these two camera's video performance.

Panasonic TZ10 Issues - Light Streaks in bright lights or reflections.
Sony HX5v - Low light performance issues.,

The HD (1440x1080P) video is now available on youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luHYzNcJx_k.

It may take some time for youtube to process the HD resolutions versions for viewing.


Last edited by MikesMultiMedia on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:54 am 
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Hi Mike, great work on the side by side videos - very revealing and interesting. I think we need to see a photo of your dual-camera rig!

I believe the vertical streaks are actually a side-effect of using CCD sensors for video, as they were also on many older CCD-based camcorders. The problem seems to be fixed on CMOS-based camcorders, so I'm guessing the CMOS sensor in the Sony camera is why it avoids the streaks.

But don't hold it completely against Panasonic, as many other CCD-based cameras suffer from it in their video modes. For example, check out this video I filmed with the Canon SX210 IS: http://www.vimeo.com/10680695


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:49 pm 
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Thanks Mike for all the extensive work comparing the cameras.

And Gordon is right I think in reference to the light streaking in CCD sensors.

However I don't recall that problem with my TZ5. Still have it and should test it out really. Just no HD video on it.

Unfortunately that rules out using the TZ7 or TZ3 for videos mostly, even though their color value and contrast is better then the HX5, especially when its gets darker.


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 Post subject: info
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:11 pm 
sorry but the HD movie is the same on the TZ7 ?

if yes... i have only the old nero 6 ....

i think nero 6 not supprt MTS file ?in how mode
i burn into a DVD this film ?

i convert in a AVI ? with how freeware sw ?

help me ? kiss Mery


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