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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:01 am 
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Hi,

I have to admit that my current 520 is to big for me: due to cerebal palsy, when walking, I "swing" a bit from side to side and the 520 is just big an uncomfortable to carry around. Not willing to give up the good quality though so I'm thinking of going M4/3. The size is so much more handy than the 520. Considering EPL5. What will I lose making the change? A lot has happened since the 520, I take it, so will the EPL5 take better photos?
I'm thinking a M4/3 will ve a bit "nose heavy" with lenses?

I shoot pictures of:

Two year old son (in house as well as playing outside).
Wild life (deer, squirrels, birds etc.)
When saling (seals etc.)

Afraid I'll miss the viewfinder though.

I realize the EP5 is the flagship but it's out of my price range. Friend advices me towards Eos M, but from what I can tell, the EPL5 eats Eos M?

I take it, I cannot use my 520 lenses with the EPL5?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:50 am 
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Have you considered the E-M1? I realize you said that the EP5 (which I'm guessing is a typo for E-M5?) is out of your price range and the E-M1 costs even more. But the E-M1's raison d'etre is quick (phase detection*) autofocus with (standard/regular/full) 4/3 lenses, so you could save some money since you wouldn't have to buy any new lenses. The E-M1 will also be less "nose heavy" than the E-PL5. And the E-M1 has a viewfinder built-in. (Whereas, to add a VF to the E-PL5 will cost another $200 or so.) So maybe with the savings on lenses and VF, the E-M1 might be doable?

If not, my primary issue with the Canon EOS M is that there aren't many small M-mount lenses to go with it. So when you look at the size of the total package (camera + lens), it's not a lot smaller (and can get pretty "nose heavy"). And in case you haven't seen it, Gordon has a comparison between the E-PL5 and EOS M on the verdict page of his E-PL5 review. Having said that, rumor is that Canon will update the EOS M this fall (Photokina).

Oh, and while I think any of the cameras will do better in low-light/high ISO situations (e.g. indoors) than the E-520, I wouldn't expect as significant an improvement outdoors in good light.

Full disclosure: I own an E-PL5 (and VF-4) - Mark

*But do note that you can indeed use (standard/regular/full) 4/3 lenses with an E-PL5 with an adapter (and last I checked, the Panasonic 4/3 to m4/3 adapter was cheaper than Oly's), but they will not autofocus as quickly.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:47 am 
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The EM1 is certainly out of my price range. I meant the top of the range pen: E-P5.

Choices if I stick with Olympus are currently:

E-PL5
M5
M10

The new, 25 mm. M4/3 Zuiko Prime looks good.

The weather sealing of the M5 appeals to me but the built in flash of the M10 does so as well.

How much of an upgrade will those cameras be respectively in comparison to my current E-520?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:43 am 
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Quote:
How much of an upgrade will those cameras be respectively in comparison to my current E-520?

As I said, you'll gain low-light/high ISO performance -- I'd say at least one stops worth, maybe two -- at the expense of AF speed with your current standard 4/3 lenses. So to me, this really isn't an upgrade, more of a "side-grade". Unless you plan to use only manual focus. Although, if that's the case, as an E-PL5 owner, I'd note that manual focus on the relatively low resolution LCD isn't easy (especially if there's a lot of ambient light, i.e. outdoors in direct sunlight). This is why I bought the VF-4. But once you add a VF-4 to the E-PL5, the package isn't a whole lot smaller or cheaper than an E-M10. (You may also need to upgrade the E-PL5's firmware to support the VF-4. I did, but I bought my camera a while ago.)

Quote:
The weather sealing of the M5 appeals to me

I'd also note that the E-M5's weather sealing isn't that big a selling point unless you also use weather sealed lenses. The catch with this is that some weather sealed lenses cost upwards of $1,000. So if the E-M1 is over your budget...

Two relatively cheap weather sealed lenses are: Oly's 12-50mm (around $400 separately, or $900 with an E-M5) (and note that at f3.5-6.3 it's a relatively slow lens) and 60mm f2.8 (around $400).

Also note that you might want to go with Oly's more expensive ($200) m4/3 to 4/3 lens adapter since, unlike Pany's adapter ($150), Oly's is weather sealed.

Quote:
The new, 25 mm. M4/3 Zuiko Prime looks good.

I agree. It will also give you even better low light performance. But I'm not aware of it being a kit option for any of the cameras on your short list. So, for example, when you add the cost of an E-M10 ($700) + 25mm f1.8 ($400) + Oly 4/3 lens adapter ($200) = $1,300 which is the cost of an E-M1 body only. To be fair, you'd still need the 4/3 lens adapter with the E-M1 body, tho.

Mark


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:23 am 
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I'm mainly considering an upgrade due to the size of my E-520, however, if you think it is not that much of an upgrade perhaps I'd better not.

perhaps Oly is making a new, smaller real DSLR that out performs my current 520?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:05 am 
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Quote:
I'm mainly considering an upgrade due to the size of my E-520, however, if you think it is not that much of an upgrade perhaps I'd better not.

Well, you did mention taking pics of your son indoors, so you should see an improvement there. And although an E-PL5 + VF-4 won't be much smaller than an E-M10, it will be smaller than an E-520. So that's two pluses. Also, Oly just announced a deal for an E-PL5 + 14-42mm kit lens + Wifi card for $500.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/digital ... .html?4-26

So if you can get by without a telephoto (at least for a while), that would get you started for a relatively low cost (since you wouldn't need the 4/3 lens adapter or VF-4).

Quote:
perhaps Oly is making a new, smaller real DSLR that out performs my current 520?

I wouldn't count on that since the E-M1 is supposed to be the "upgrade path" for 4/3 DSLR users. And even if Oly did to that, I'm pretty sure it'd be more expensive than an E-PL5 or E-M10.

Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:06 am 
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Maestro wrote:
Quote:
I'm mainly considering an upgrade due to the size of my E-520, however, if you think it is not that much of an upgrade perhaps I'd better not.

Well, you did mention taking pics of your son indoors, so you should see an improvement there. And although an E-PL5 + VF-4 won't be much smaller than an E-M10, it will be smaller than an E-520. So that's two pluses. Also, Oly just announced a deal for an E-PL5 + 14-42mm kit lens + Wifi card for $500.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/digital ... .html?4-26

So if you can get by without a telephoto (at least for a while), that would get you started for a relatively low cost (since you wouldn't need the 4/3 lens adapter or VF-4).

Quote:
perhaps Oly is making a new, smaller real DSLR that out performs my current 520?

I wouldn't count on that since the E-M1 is supposed to be the "upgrade path" for 4/3 DSLR users. And even if Oly did to that, I'm pretty sure it'd be more expensive than an E-PL5 or E-M10.

Mark



I want as View finder, so I'm now considering the E-M instead of the pen line.

IO will also take photos of my son outdoors. Actually, mostly outdoors, I think.

I'm now considering switching to Canon: a 700D, 60D or /70D. Will the 700D be a great upgrade compared to my 520?

Also, I want to stay with DSLR for image quality but apparently, according to DXO marks, the OMD-E-M1 does better than 70D for image quality.

I'd really like to stay with a €1,000 budget and get two lenses, one of which being a 200 mm tele. Is this possible. I have also considered the Nikon D7100, however, based on my experience with 700D and 5200, the Canon has a far superior grib (to my hands anyway.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:18 am 
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Huh. I swear I didn't see the Canon stuff earlier. Anyway...

Quote:
I'm now considering switching to Canon: a 700D, 60D or /70D. Will the 700D be a great upgrade compared to my 520?

Given your total budget of €1,000 for the body and two lenses, one of which you want to be a 200mm, I would think not. I'm also confused since I was under the impression from your original post that your primary concern was that you wanted something smaller than your E-520, but none of these cameras are.

Quote:
apparently, according to DXO marks, the OMD-E-M1 does better than 70D for image quality.

True. But I personally believe the skill of the photographer and post-processor will have a much more significant impact on the final image than the DXO Mark score. And I think a similar point could be made with regard to the lens(es) used. And given the same skillful photographer/post-processor and (quality) lens, I doubt you'd see much of a difference between two images captured with each of those bodies.

Quote:
I'd really like to stay with a €1,000 budget and get two lenses, one of which being a 200 mm tele. Is this possible.

Seems like it might be with either of:

Canon 18-200mm
Canon 55-250mm (note: if you go with the 70D, you'd probably also want to go with the STM version of this lens which costs more.)

Full disclosure: I also own a 70D - Mark


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 3:11 pm 
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You're right. Originally, I wanted a smaller body than my current E-520. However, I think that going with an Olympus M4/3, I'll be giving up on some image quality which can be retained and hopefully even improved by sticking to a traditional DSLR. Also, having held the 700D in my hands, it didn't feel too big or heavy, and I really liked the ergonomics of that body. I haven't handheld any M4/3s by Olympus, but looking at at a small samsung system camera (that I did handle) and the EOS M by Canon, they simply seem too small and uncomfortable.

With regards to the lenses, a Danish web shop is having what they label a "Campaign Prize" on a 700D:

http://www.dustinhome.dk/product/501077 ... 6gb-taske/

You get the body, 18-55 and 55-250 mm STM lenses, a 16 gb card and a bag. for what translates into £645.

The lenses included, as I understand it, will be good for beginners like me, however, it is the 700D body that makes me hold back: not sure sure I'll be able to grow enough with it compared to my E-520. I definitely fancy the more MP and the 9 focus points of the 700D though. My E-520 has just 3 AF points, which is far too little.

This would also be a great package: http://www.dustinhome.dk/product/501075 ... 8-ii-16gb/

18-135 mm STM plus EF 50 mm 1.8 and a 16 GB card.

But it would hurt to pay what translates into £1,125! I think I would be overly protective taking a kit like that anywhere...

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:34 am 
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Quote:
having held the 700D in my hands, it didn't feel too big or heavy, and I really liked the ergonomics of that body.

Well, that's the ultimate test. Glad you found something that feels good to you! And that "Campaign Prize" deal even leaves some funds left over for a (fast) prime, if you need/want one.

Quote:
But it would hurt to pay what translates into £1,125! I think I would be overly protective taking a kit like that anywhere...

Yeah, no sense buying a camera that you're afraid to use. Plus, if you haven't handled a 70D, mine is noticeably larger than my 650D (which is the same size as the 700D). The difference isn't huge, but if you were to blindfold me and hand me one or the other, I'd be able to tell you which is which just by feel.

Mark


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 7:43 pm 
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Another possibility: how about the Pentax K-50? According to Dixo, better image quality (I'll be using kit lenses), higher fps and weather sealing. Looks good to me.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:39 pm 
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Well, again, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the DxO numbers, nor would I put too much emphasis on weather sealing unless you plan to also use weather sealed lenses. So it would seem to me to come down to which kit lenses you're referring to with the K-50 and how they match up with the lenses included in the "Campaign Prize" deal.

And the total Pentax package price, obviously - Mark


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:12 pm 
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Canon package:

EF-S 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM + 55-250/4.0-5.6 IS STM


Pentax: K-50:

smc PENTAX-DA L 18-55mm F3.5-5.6AL WR, and the smc PENTAX-DA L 50-200 F4-5.6ED WR

Pentax is cheaper by 80 euro but doesn't include an SD card and has 50 mm. shorter range.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 6:32 am 
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Given how close they are, I would think the ultimate test would again be going out and handling the K-50 to see if it feels better to you than the 700D. Or, if you can't handle one, that might indicate that service/support might be more difficult and tilt things in favor of Canon.

But that's just how I would do it. YMMV - Mark


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 6:57 am 
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Maestro wrote:
Given how close they are, I would think the ultimate test would again be going out and handling the K-50 to see if it feels better to you than the 700D. Or, if you can't handle one, that might indicate that service/support might be more difficult and tilt things in favor of Canon.

But that's just how I would do it. YMMV - Mark


You think they are close? The Pentax scores significantly higher. I can handler a K-50 but Pentax has almost no retailers in Denmark. There's a Canon retailer in every decent city I think.

I just can't help thinking (based on scores) that I'm getting mid range camera for entry level prize with the K-50 as opposed to the Canon.

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