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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:42 pm 
I think that the majority of sales of the D3 and D3x are to people who rely on the ruggedness - photojournalists, papparazzi, travel-shooters etc. (and of course the wealthy gear-heads for whom $5-8K doesn't matter)

The D700 appeals to the rest of us - we won't be shooting in the amazon one week and in the arctic circle the next.

As such, there should remain a market for the "ultimate" models, even with the D700(s)(x)/D800 line.

Cheers :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:12 pm 
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You're right, Dojobear: It probably is a marketing thing - unless the yields on the new sensor are so miserable that they cannot supply enough for the additional D700x numbers :?
As I said: the design-in of the new sensor couldn't have taken more than a month. So: if not yield and not engineering issues are holding them back I keep coming back to my question:
What are the Nikon developers that are specialized in DSLR bodies do at the mo?
Most current bodies need nothing more than an update in internal processing (refinement of video-modes etc.), so that goes under the "s" headline. No need to redesign something in the electro-mechanical department. So, is it
- a mirrorless "micro-APS-C" body designed to compete with the slew of micro-4/3?
- (finally) body-based image-stabilization?
- interchangeable sensors?
Well, nobody (outside Nikon) knows.
But if Nikon is releasing a plain vanilla D700x (even in a D700xs variant) on Dec. 1st 2009 at extortionate prices I'll be sad for them :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:17 pm 
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After surfing around I get the impression that a viewfinder micro-APS-C body might indeed be in the making and diverting precious development resources away from a D700x.
And the other horrifying rumor goes along the lines that an improved D700 might only get a 16Mp or 18MP sensor. What is Nikon thinking? That they don't need a top-notch sensor in the fight to win market share from the 5DII or A900/850?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:50 pm 
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I would love to see a Nikon rangefinder full frame body like the M9. Even greater would be if it had an F-mount or at least an adapter for it that comes with the camera.
One thing for sure - there will be a D700x. Sooner or later.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Ok, after today's meager announcements (see me venting my disappointment here) the big Q is: Can we wring any drop of enlightenment from what Nikon is showing us today that lets us have a clearer look into the future of a high(er) resolution D700-style body?

Well, the only thing that comes to my mind is that the D700 successor or complement will certainly contain all the "s"-style features. So we might see a D700s and a D700xs.
Or perhaps Nikon's bean-counters have decided that there is no room for two D700(s) versions and Nikon will come up with a D700sx/2, meaning a D700 body with the "s"-update and a 18MP sensor that has the same low-light capabilities as the D700. This would obsolete the D700 and reduce some of the pressure for a high pixel-count D700x.
Because getting over 80% of the pixels of a 5DII with the incredible ISO-performance of the D700 would sure be a good position.

Well: we can only dream...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Time to warm (this) up, again!
- There is an alleged quote coming from China that production of the D700 is terminated.
- And there is a "prediction" by Thom Hogan, that the successor to the D700 would come march 2010. Not with the 24MP sensor of the D3x or the allegedly new 12MP sensor from the D3s but something like 18MP.
- I also heard 16MP somewhere.
Let's do some math:
16MP FX is equivalent to 7MP in a DX body
18MP FX is equiv. to 8MP DX
16MP is 33% more pixels than 12MP, giving 15% more linear resolution. That is something you barely see.
18MP is 50% more pixels than 12MP, giving 22% more linear resolution. That is starting to get noticed imho. But it would reduce the advantage of the D3x to (only) 33% more pixels.
Comparing 16MP to the 21MP of Canons FF-bodies there are 31% more pixels in the Canon and should Canon up the ante the difference will really show.

So, let's see what Nikon will put up to fight back!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:34 pm 
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My assumption, reading all the rumors, is Nikon will come up with a low MP D700 style body, BIG seller, but that would mean D3s/D3x successor will get something with more MP, so they don't have to "compete". Nikon really needs something beyond the D700, I agree now, but I don't think they can justify having a D700 style 18MP body, and one (and a half) year later the D4 with the same sensor.

So I am curious what Nikon will do, I hope now too that they wont just add video to the D700 and call it D700s, that I think is non justifiable as well when they have just launched the D3s.

Canon will come with the 1Ds mIV soon, they need to be ahead of that in the D700 successor.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:38 pm 
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I doubt Nikon will put a higher resolving sensor into the D700s. The next logic update will be the D3s' sensor along with d-movie. A D700s with more MP and good ISO performance would not look too good for D3s sales and that's something Nikon does not want.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:32 pm 
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I still don't have a good feeling what Nikon is up to, by re-using sensors, they are behind on technology for about a year (D3-D700). Looking at the D300-D90-D5000, the better camera (D300) was even running behind on sensor performance. So if Nikon is able to, it would be better for them to make the D700 and D3(s) lines separate, if feasible in the long term. You expect the D700 line to have a shorter life cycle than the D3(s) line.

After all, it's only rumors and guessing, and the D700 and D3 line are both still in the first stage of a life cycle being the first FX camera's.

I'd like to see where this discussion will be heading, I myself don't have any clue, and would like to see if someone has better logic to provide, I can't get a grip on anything so far (D300s - 70-200VRII and D3s and micro85DX)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:12 pm 
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I also can only speculate or share speculation form other sources.
But looking at the announcement dates of Nikon's FX-bodies:
D3: August 2007
D700: July 2008
D3x: December 2008
D3s: October 2009
I can only conclude that the D700 is due for (at least) a refresh: that would be the D700s. If you factor in the expectation that the D4 will turn up in 2011, there is some time that the D700 successor will have to plug the hole in the A900/850/5DmkII market. Otherwise Nikon will lose market share bad time in this segment.

Now, as others have already commented here Nikon wight hold back on D700 innovation to stop cannibalizing its successful D3s/x business and that might well be true. Because technically Nikon could produce a D700s and D700x in no time at almost no development cost. The only other thing in my mind that could have stopped the D700x to appear is costs: If the D3x sensor has low yields or is a real high cost part because of other factors, putting this sensor in a D700 body could put the price of this into regions that could not really compete with Sony and Canon.
So, which routes could Nikon go then - assuming that a D700x with the D3x 24MP-sensor is ruled out for at least another year?

Do the D700s and do it fast
That would be just keeping the balance in the market. The split between D3s and D700s could be assumed to stay at D3/D700 levels. The pressure on Nikon's market-share against Sony and Canon (in the semi-pro FF market) would more or less stay the same. This could be the "hang-on" strategy until the next round in 2011.

Do a D800 with a new sensor
As Nikon has shown with the D3x and D3s it has developed some very nice sensor technology of their own that could bbe brought to bear on some intermediate 16-18MP sensor. That sensor would have less noise than the D3s but more than the D3s. And (this is pure speculation) it could have the same SNR as the current D700.
It would also eliminate the need to produce two versions (a 12MP D700s and a 24MP D700x) thus lowering complexity but adds a third FX-sensor. So I'm not sure that complexity is currently on Nikon's mind.
More important is perhaps that this model would not compete directly with their own successful D3s (better low-noise) and D3x (higher res). It should be capable of beating the 5DmkII in SNR/dynamic range by one stop albeit at a slightly reduced resolution. ((in my eyes 18MP would be close enough to 21MP, but 16MP would be risky. Also compared to Sony)).
A sensor with 25% lower resolution than the D3x might also prove cheaper to manufacture and yields might be better.
As to speed: working on only 75% (at 18MP) or 67% (at 16MP) of the pixels of a D3x at each shot could raise the opportunity to cut the number of read-out lanes in half and still achieve 67% or 75% of the D3x speed. That would give you still 3.5-4 fps with a less complex/costly sensor. That would be enough for people like me and shooting at 7MP or 8MP DX-crop could double these numbers to 7-8 fps.

That latter strategy could also prolong the life of the D800 in light of a new D4 in 2011, while a 12MP D700s will suddenly look pretty old vs a new and improved higher MP D4.

So all in all a 16-18MP refresh of the D700 next spring latest looks like a strategy that could fit into Nikon's portfolio - unless you believe that is not enough to compete with Sony and Canon in this field.

Remember though: This is all speculation!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:53 pm 
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Just to bring this thread on top again I'll just quote from Thom Hogan's "predictions":
Thom Hogan wrote:
Something not called a D700x: announced by end of March 2010, and probably called something like D900.
D700-type body, new Nikon FX high resolution sensor
more than 18mp, probably 24mp
4-5fps
Best video yet in terms of specs for a Nikon DSLR (not that this is of much interest to anyone reading this site)

I personally am inclined to disagree with the >18MP / poss. 24MP part of the prediction. It might well be that Nikon choose to position the D700-successor in between both the D3 and D3x sensor-wise. Although that would mean to develop a new sensor it might help to position the new camera at a 3500EUR price-point (street-price incl. 19% VAT). That would be smack in the middle between the current D700 and the D3s.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Oh and I forgot: Thom Hogan also predicted:
Quote:
D700s: announced by Nov 2010
Brings the D3s changes to the D3 to the D700

I only hope that Nikon does not switch the D700s and D900 release dates :roll: (if a D700s is also in the making...)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Sellout of D700 imminent?
One of the more trustworthy internet-dealers in Germany reduced the price of the D700 to 1880 EUR (incl. 19% VAT = 1580€ w/o VAT).
This is the lowest price ever in that particular comparison.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:55 pm 
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The D700 currently costs 1818,00 euros over here, including taxes (VAT as you call it).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:34 am 
Same thing in the Canary Islands. But it was always like that because we don't pay taxes like the rest of Europe :D


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