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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Whether Nikon announces the D4 or D800 first they better announce something soon. Canon has the spotlight and is likely getting more market share at the same time with their 1D-X. I bet they are all sold out even though they won't begin selling till the end of March 2012.

Very tempting DSLR even at $7k CAD. But that's a lot of money for a single camera body. Even if it is Canon's flagship model. Plus, I prefer the non-pro bodies.

LET'S GO NIKON!! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Well, I'm a firm believer that delivering beats announcement. So Nikon might well pull it off if they can deliver at least as fast as Canon.
But on the other hand: an extended period of expecting the new gear to arrive can also be quite some fun...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:19 am 
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Well, if Nikon insists on waiting to announce/release they better time it right (e.g. near the release date of the Canon 1D-X...if that is roughly the time they plan to announce/release the D4). And since there's still no release date for the Canon 5D Mark III..Nikon has some leeway in when they announce/release the D800.

As I've said. I just hope the D800 isn't based on the D3x (high MP vs more useable ISO). If they do...I might be jumping ship and going with the Canon 5D Mark III...unless they too put out a MP beast instead of a camera with great low light ability. If that happens...I might be looking at pro-bodied DSLRs after all. Then it will be the D3s vs the 1D-X (I cringe at the rought of spending 7k on a camera body...but I won't say I definitely won't).


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:38 pm 
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AGC888 wrote:
[…] instead of a camera with great low light ability […]


AGC888, I would strongly advice you to read some of the posts in this thread from two or three months ago, where we discussed the pixel vs. ISO capability myth. I think it is kind of Nikon's own fault that there are now millions of photographers who have to be re-educated since Nikonians were propagating the myth for a while. Though I am glad that a few regular posters like Thomas have been converted and are now spreading the truth:
A 50 megapixel sensor with a current design would quite likely produce better low light images than a D700 (the D3's sensor design goes back to 2005). Even with two sensors of the same generation but different megapixel counts one should opt for the sensor with more pixels in low light situations – if they are Bayer based.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Bernie,

I'll read that DXO article you posted back in October. I'm assuming you're referring to the posts made at around that time. But in the mean time...

Let's assume more MP does give us the ability to take better photos under low-light conditions (w/ more DR...etc.). Why would Nikon spend so much time and money marketing and developing 12MP FX bodies? Why not start with 21MP FX bodies? And then only now put out a 36MP D800 (and maybe a 36MP D4)?

Will we be able to (using the new 36MP D800) take photos comparable to the photos taken at 12,800 IS0 at 6400 ISO?

Also, why would Canon then bother with an 18MP 51,200 useable ISO 1D-X? And not put out a 40MP 6400 (useable) ISO flagship DSLR?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Nikon is not a company that is telling us much about its product and marketing strategies or R&D. 12 MP sensors were used ever since the D2x. Even back then computers and hardware in general easily handled much larger files. So speculations are that it had mainly to do with what Sony as the sensor manufacturer could deliver for the targeted ESP of the camera. Additionally the original 12 MP CCD could not be pushed into the higher ISOs too well at room temperature or above (sensor noise is mainly temperature related). When they switched to CMOS, which from a photographer's point of view is inferior, the engineers designed an affordable 12 MP full frame sensor with usable ISO 12,500 and a more expensive 24 MP version, which we later saw in the α900 and D3x.

Why Canon went the 18 MP route is probably marketing related. Most customers might prefer an 18 MP sensor that does ISO 51,200 over one that has 36 MP but only ISO 12,500. Nikon might actually take the same route by ending the D3x line and fitting the D4 with an 18 MP sensor as well. Unless we are going to see some sort of interchangeable sensor module, which Nikon has knowingly been working on. One thing I am wondering about is why no Japanese manufacturer has tried pixel binning yet. Over the last year I have mainly been photographing with high megapixel digital backs that can bin the signal of 4 sensels before the digital conversion. What you get is a much lower resolution but far better signal to noise ratio. That technology could be used to have the D800 produce 12 MP files with ISO 100k.

By the way, quality wise the images of a 32 MP D800 will be superior to those from a D700, even at the higher ISOs.


Last edited by Bernie on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Well, as I've said before, there is one thing a high-MP camera will not be able to deliver: same speed as a lo-MP camera (provided the technology is comparable). So the easy differentiation of lo-MP=fast and hi-MP=slow cameras may well be enough to cover the high-end segment. Add to that a nice battery grip for those who need it and you can cover all your bases with just two camera/sensor models. That certainly makes perfect commercial sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:50 pm 
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As for the Canon 1D-X...we know that camera has to satisfy many photographers. Studio to sports shooters. Hence the 18MP 12FPS (or 14 with the mirror up). Ok back to the topic of this thread...Nikon DSLRs.

All we can do now is wait for Nikon to announce the D800/D4 with confirmed specs. Then wait for Gordon to test them. :) Nikon's already lost 840 million due to the flood in Thailand. Nikon needs to show the world they aren't just working on getting the Thailand plant back on track (started shipping from Thailand as of Nov 30th) and they can innovate.

If they DO just import the AF system from the D700/D3 into the D800/D4 I'll be disappointed. This rumor better not come true.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Now waiting for January. NR says that many ads were booked in pro-photo magazines and couldn't that be only for the new stuff!?
Well, there's always hope...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:43 am 
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Nikonrumors is now confirming the detailed specs of the D800 with 99% confidence, and I quote:
36 MP sensor (7360x4912)
100% viewfinder coverage
Improved AF with face recognition – the D800 will still have 51 points AF point
CF+SD memory card slots
USB 3.0
ISO range: 100 – 6400, ISO LO @ 50 and ISO HI-2 @ 25600
The screen will be larger than 3 inches (probably 3.2 in.)
The D800 will not have built-in GPS
Expeed 3 processor
There will be two different D800 versions/models, one with the antialiasing filter removed
4 fps continuous shooting, about 6 fps in DX mode with optional battery pack
Video modes: 1080p/30/25/24 and 720p/60/30/25/24
Headphone jack, can input from an external device such as a PCM sound recorder
86k pixels RGB sensor
200,000 shutter cycles
Uncompressed HDMI video out (just like the Nikon D4)


This all sounds very lovely to me and I'd certainly go for the sans-AA version and be happy for a very long time - until Nikon is going to make a version with sensor-based stabilization and/or a smaller+lighter body :roll:

But the admin has "still no idea about the exact D800 announcement" date. :?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Oh and btw.: The images of the body indicate that the built-in flash/commander of the D700 will make it to the D800 body, too.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Sounds great, but I'm having a little difficulty swallowing that there would be versions with and without AA filter. Of course there's no technical reason they couldn't. I just can't imagine Nikon or retailers wanting to increase their stock management workload, not to mention buyer confusion over which model they should get.

Having said that, how many colour variations do they do of the 1?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:05 pm 
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"how many colour variations do they do of the 1" :D :) :? :( :cry:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:45 pm 
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Apologies if it's an obvious answer, but what are the benefits to not having the AA filter? (what type of photography) :?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:40 pm 
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No AA-filter brings more sharpness/micro-contrast at very fine details.
But you risk producing moire on regular ultra-fine patterns. The risk of producing moires also depends on the resolving power of the lens.
Leica's flagship M9 has no AA-filter at 18MP although Leica produces some of the sharpest lenses ever. So at 36MP the new D800 should be fine, because the resolution/frequency where moire occurs is 40% higher.

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