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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:06 am 
I've noticed this annoying issue with my D80. I'm not sure if it's just a normal part of photography that I'll have to get used to or if it's design problem with the D80 itself.

When I'm working in manual mode, I use the Electronic Analog Exposure Display a lot but whenever I pop the flash up, the reading doesn't change. The info it gives me doesn't seem to take into account the light that the camera is about to throw out from the flash. Is this normal? Or am I doing something wrong?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:34 am 
Has no-one else encountered this problem? Or is it such an obviously stupid question from a newbie that people are embarrassed to answer? :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:56 pm 
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There is no such thing as a stupid question - it's just that we specialists have to make up our minds :shock: :idea: :roll:
Just tested it:
1. Set your D80 to manual. Push the flash in.
2. Point at some static object indoors (not too bright) and adjust aperture and/or shutter to have the meter exactly at 0 (a.k.a "zero")
3. Now pop the flash up. My display changes to "-" when i pop up the flash.
Now that's funny. shouldn't the flash add light so the metering should go to "+"? Well, strange things happen: I have my ISO set to auto and that also seems to change, when I popped up the flash. So some nontrivial calculations are going on inside the cam.
When I'm aiming outdoors nothing changes (neither exposure nor ISO). It seems that the cam assumes that the small onboard-flash does not really add to the lighting.

But to make exact judgments, not only look through the viewfinder but also make photos, as the exposure of the cam and flash is real-time controlled, when the flash hits the fan (so to speak).
But for you being so pushy, I'll leave that as a homework for you, TelexStar :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:59 pm 
tombomba2 wrote:
But for you being so pushy, I'll leave that as a homework for you, TelexStar :wink:


Apologies sir!


*sits in the corner with a Dunce hat on* :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:44 pm 
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Yeah, you can come out of your corner, as soon as you enlighten us with the results of your test-shooting :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:50 pm 
All these shots were taken in Manual mode, Centre weighted, ISO 400. I’m not sure what it’s doing but the results don’t seem to be as drastic as I expected. In all of the cases there was no change in the analog exposure display at all.

There’s really not a lot of difference that I can see.

What do people make of this?


TAKEN WITH CURTAINS OPEN
Flash- YES. Exposure- 0.5 sec. Aperture- f/4. ISO Speed- 400. WB- Auto.
Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1357/570 ... 7c0b_o.jpg

TAKEN WITH CURTAINS OPEN
Flash- NO. Exposure- 0.5 sec. Aperture- f/4. ISO Speed- 400. WB- Auto.
Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1413/570 ... e40d_o.jpg

TAKEN WITH CURTAINS CLOSED
Flash- YES. Exposure- 6 sec. Aperture- f/4. ISO Speed- 400. WB- Auto.
Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1113/570 ... a42f_o.jpg

TAKEN WITH CURTAINS CLOSED
Flash- NO. Exposure- 6 sec. Aperture- f/4. ISO Speed- 400. WB- Auto.
Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1114/570 ... 77cf_o.jpg




In the shots above, with the flash off, I think the WB auto was getting confused so I took a couple of shots with me manually setting the WB…
Flash- YES. Exposure- 0.5 sec. Aperture- f/4. ISO Speed- 400. WB- Flash.
Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1024/570 ... 98bf_o.jpg

Flash- NO. Exposure- 0.5 sec. Aperture- f/4. ISO Speed- 400. WB- Daylight.
Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/570 ... 7abf_o.jpg


I then took two shots with the flash fired but on different shutter speeds…

Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1228/570 ... 43bc_o.jpg

Image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1409/570 ... 45b6_o.jpg


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:23 pm 
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So the "+..0..-" indicator was always at "0"?!
What you see is that the flash almost makes no difference. So why should the camera then go t oa different exposure.

Could you please link to the picture page in flickr, not the static farm, with your links (the images are ok), so that we can peek for ourselves at the properties?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:45 pm 
Sure.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/benmoscrop ... 401481879/


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:02 pm 
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Hmmm...
Your last photo looks only slightly brighter although it has 5 times the exposure than your second last :?
I'm quite astonished :!:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:45 am 
In the two last shots (with the umbrella), the first photo was taken with the Analog Exposure metre reading exactly on 0. The second photo was taken with the metre reading all the way to the right (over exposed).

I don’t understand why it’s doing this.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:26 am 
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I'm sure I've read somewhere that auto ISO doesn't work with the flash. I'll have a hunt through the manual and Thom Hogan's guide at lunchtime.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:14 am 
I didn't have mine set to Auto auto. It was manually set to 400 in these shots.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:02 pm 
I too have noticed a few odd metering problems around the flash. But I don't have the time to work out if its me or the camera!

The problem I have found is that I really wanted a digital SLR like my old film SLR. It just had ISO, PASM modes, one meter mode and a self timer and that was it. With my D80 I have got more options than I can shake a stick at. (No pleasing some people !!)

Sorry, not helping much with the problem, other than to suggest that I agree there may be a bug somewhere in this area of the metering software.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am 
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Hi TelexStar. You have come to the limits of your free flickr account. So we (and you) cannot any longer see your photos in this post :(
Would be nice to upload them again and "relink" or upgrade to a pro acountby which your older photos reappear as if by magic (or find another free source for your pics altogether).

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:35 am 
tombomba2 wrote:
Hi TelexStar. You have come to the limits of your free flickr account. So we (and you) cannot any longer see your photos in this post :(


It's not the account. It's me being an idiot and deleting them from my account by mistake. I'll upload them again.

I do need to upgrade to a Pro account soon though. :)


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