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 Post subject: Nikon D200 etc
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 12:50 am 
Dear all.

I am seriously considering purchasing the Nikon D200 after much research and deliberation.
I feel my mind is made up, and I am looking forward to the results.

But, before I do - I wanted to know if anyone had any news about future Nikon releases, or the time scale Nikon and Canon employ before updating their camera bodies?

Should I wait until the end of the year?

What's around the corner?

My main reason for asking this is that, while the D200 body seems to be pretty reasonably priced now as it is, maybe in 6 - 12 months time it will be even cheaper. From the results I have seen and the general quality of the camera I find it hard to think that Nikon can top it.

Please enlighten me. Or don't.

Regards,

Kevin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:28 am 
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Hi Woolymoor, welcome to the Cameralabs forums!

I'm afraid I haven't got any info on any upcoming Nikon bodies, and even if I did, I'd probably be under NDA and therefore unable to talk about them! But honestly, I really don't know anything about any future Nikon bodies.

But in the past, Canon would normally update its entry level and mid-range DSLRs every 18 months or so, while Nikon seemd to leave it longer, typically 2-3 years.

This means we're due to have a successor to the Canon 30D in the next 6 months and most Canon-ites would say we're overdue for a 5D and 1Ds Mark II successor.

As for Nikon, it sure did release a lot of bodies in the last 18 months, so who knows if they're now operating under a new, more aggressive strategy, or whether they'll now go quiet on virtually all product lines for the next few years... (apart from the overdue D2X successor of course!)

It's also worth noting that unlike Canon, many of Nikon's future products rely on third party sensors being released and there's not been news of, say, a new Sony 14 Mpixel APS-sized sensor to slip into existing DSLR form factors - not that I've heard of anyway.

But two things are for certain:

1: A new body will arrive sooner or later, and...

2: Existing products will gradually reduce in price.

So if you can wait, then hang on and see what happens. If you're ready to buy today though, then like all technology purchases, go for it and start enjoying it right now! And try not to worry too much about what's coming up...

Sorry I can't provide any firm roadmap info... anyone else got any gossip or predictions on future Nikon bodies?

Gordon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:48 am 
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With the laws of physics being already stretched to the limit by todays sensors, I wouldn't really expect any major breakthrough on the sensor side. And even If they go for 14MP sensors - which certainly someone will do (not talking of the Sigma Fauveon) - remember that this just means 20% more pixel in each dimension. I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
And don't think the situation is just like with microprocessors, where you can successfully shrink from 90nm to 65nm to 45nm. Yes, manufacturers of sensors can do that too, but they reduce the number of photons hitting one cell on the same time, increasing necessarily the signal/noise ratio and thus reducing the analog quality of of the pic!

If on the other side that means the manufacturers have to increase noise reduction by 20% except for the brightest conditions, nothing's really improved. Except for some marketing guys being happy.

Recommended reading:
(1) Gordons comments on the quality of a 10MP compact here www.cameralabs.com/reviews/PanasonicLX2/page6.shtml
Quote:
it's crazy to buy a 10 Megapixel camera but be restricted to treating it as if it only had 5

(2) Cornelius'comments on marketing here www.cameralabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=393

Addendum: The price of the body does not only depend on the price of the electronics involved. Esp. the rigid D200 body is some serious example of a highly complex mechanical design. I would suspect that apart from a sale to clear off inventory when the successor shows up, there is not too much headroom in reducing the D200 street prices much more. Just my twopence...

_________________
Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses


Last edited by Thomas on Wed May 02, 2007 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 12:53 pm 
Reading back through my post I sound like Ebenezer scrooge!

But, I suppose I really just wanted to know if you had any insight into the future of DSLR's, and what it could mean in relation to the current crop of semi-pro cameras.

You have both enlightened me, and I thank you for it.

I'm not quite ready to jump in and buy at the moment, but the time is coming soon. I mainly want a camera for wildlife and landscape photography, but that can also double as an everyday/travel/portrait camera.

Of course the lenses are as, if not more, important than the camera body itself, but from what I have seen and read - the D200 seems to hold the right amount of quality and rugged housing that can meet my needs.

Although, I'm sure a lot of wildlife photographers - amateur and professional alike - would go with a canon model.

I may be wrong but I believe the lens and the person behind the camera play the biggest part in taking a good picture.


So, thank you for your comments and teachings; I really appreciate it. And may I say what a sterling Job you are doing here at Camera Labs.

Regards,

Kevin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 1:48 pm 
Hi wollymoor,

Being shrewd about what's coming up in the future is certainly a good thing but if you’re always wondering what’s going to be coming round the corner, you could potentially always be sitting on the bench waiting for a better model (which *will* always come out) rather than actually taking photos. :)

When you’re ready to buy a camera, do the research then and by into what fits your needs (as well as something that you think you can grow into) and be happy with it. Don’t look back.

As you’ve probably figured out, lenses have a much longer lifecycle than a camera body so keep in mind that whatever you end up getting, your lenses will inevitably stay with you longer than your camera body will.

Good luck and happy shopping! :)

P.S. The D200 is a great choice btw. My sister-in-law has one and she's very happy with it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:16 pm 
And thanks for the links Thomas (only one worked though). I kind of agree with Cornelius on many points, and those same points could be applied to almost every field of technology, especially in the arts. It's never been so easy to create something bad and then display it to the world.

I hope I don't fall in to the category of Photographer that Cornelius was ranting about though. I don't, and can't waste money on technology just for the sake of keeping up with the joneses' or to enthuse with like minded gadget-heads about my latest purchases (although that side of me exists!).
I'm really just looking to buy something that will last and serve me well so that I don't have to feel the need to constantly upgrade.

Some of my favourite pictures have been taken with very basic equipment used in a fairly haphazard way, but as an amateur naturalist and someone with a great love natural history I want start afresh in the digital realm with a decent SLR that will last, and hopefully progress on up the wildlife photography ladder and see where I end up. I am serious about this venture and am compelled to see it through; just so happens to be at the same time as thousands of other consumers, who may or may not be in it for the same reasons. But that's their choice - good luck to all.

Anyway,

I'm waffling.


Carry on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Corrected the link. It was the "." at the end. Here it is again: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panas ... age6.shtml

Happy reading & deciding, Kevin!

B.t.w.: Since DSLR sensors reached 10MP I'm no longer concerned with the megapixel race...

_________________
Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:35 pm 
Cheers, Thomas & Telexstar

Good words; fine words.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:44 pm 
Hello Woolymore,

I wasn't exactly ranting, or at least didn't mean to, sorry if it came accross that way.
I realize that any choice of a photogrpahic component is hard for anyone. The most important thing is knowing what you want to photograph most, knowing what you will like to photograph, and knowing what will give you pleasure to photograph.... subsequently finding and choosing the perfect combination to that with.

For instance buying a macro lens just because some forum member raves about it, and then going out to shoot Macro'ed bugs and flowers will result in a disaster, images without any "atmosphere" or "feeling" on the other hand if you do want to shoot bugs and flowers then go for it, but go for it on you own temrs, choosing your own equipement for it, and since I gather you don't have a national Geographic contract yet you can settle for a less expensive lens, it will not be as good as the "perfect" multi buck example, but it will certainly provide you with the right tool at the right time. Once you do get the national Geographic contract you can purchase the raved about lens.... and once you have the raved about lens you will realize that it#s better, but certainly not a whole lot better. (this doesn't only apply to bugs and flowers)

You must find your "forte" in photogrpahy, only that makes a difference.... everything has been photogrpahed before, but not by everyone yet .... and if you do decide to photograph it again, do it with verve, add the little touch of enjoyment to it ... if you know what I mean ....

For me it wasn't all that simple either. I photograph historic architecture and art, generally "religion" related, and then only the details, not the complete subjects because there are loads of those images allready, I try to capture the details and try to make a point based upon those details, I am a researcher by trade, but need photogrpahy to prove my research points .... I have come to enjoy this and hence make images which will shine with a certain conviction, most other will find my work boring, I personally love it, this makes all the difference.

I use to do all this using analog/film but in the digital era even my most conservative contract (the vatican/RC church) for instance wants digital images.... What do I do, go out and buy the most expensive camera setup I can find ... no, although I would love to, believe me, but it would be all a waste .... I try to find the equipement that suits my needs best, but whatever they are they need to be professional in a manner that they won't break down during an important photo session ..... carry a back-up camera ... total self ignorant stupidity brought on by people needing to justify there overzelous purchases. (unless you're a real pro, living off the money you make takin photogrpahs)

I choce the D200 over a choice of other cameras just because it feel a little bit more secure, doesn't have the in camera anti shale thing, but I can get in lenses, which will do the trick just as well. I shoot roughly 20.000 shots on a yearly basis, the project write-off time is 3 years after which a D300, or 400 with perhaps better specs will be available, who knows, if it still works I will still use use it, if by then you might have huge sensors enabling perfect 1:1 imaging I will definately go for it, but only if I think I need it to conduct my work in an orderly fashion.... I might, no I will buy a number of lenses, I like lenses and they are the most important facet of photogrpahy, this is why you need to be certain that the camera supplier is the one that will serve your future needs, and the lenses will fit on future models cameras....

anyway enough about this, congratulations with the D200, I have just picked up mine today and it looks like a perfect camera to me .... it all feels very very good I must say ....

Good light ....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:29 pm 
I definitely agree with you, Cornelius and I apologize for using the word 'rant'; it was inappropriate.

As has been expressed before: Everyone has the right to do what they want and buy what they want - within the law of course - which is great. But, like you, I think that having a genuine passion and a clear vision, along with a practical attitude, is the best way to fully experience and realize your chosen craft; in the end it's down to you as the individual to make the right choices and pretty much teach yourself. Though, using websites such as this and listening to the views of experts in their field is always useful when drawing your own conclusions.

It's true that there is a culture of waste, and an almost blind desire to consume electronics, and in New York (where I am at the moment) there are no end of people, young and old, with some really serious looking DSLR's swinging from their collars, wearing them almost as a fashion statement. I may be right or wrong about that but it's the feeling I get.

Though even if someone buys a camera for 'the wrong reason' at least they are taking pictures with it and, if and when they get bored, I'm sure they will sell it on eBay so that someone with a genuine interest can take advantage.

Your work sounds fascinating, Cornelius and it's good to hear about it.
Thank you for your sound advice, I appreciate it.

Kevin


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