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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:22 pm 
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14-24 on DX would be a good walkabout lens for travel/street. I don't think it will be wide enough for some shots, but could suffice.

If you're in a part of the world where you can, I'd rent one out first - be prepared to drop the cash on it though - it WILL blow you away!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:02 pm 
I want a lens that can do both landscape and city photography. I am mainly intrested in older parts of town with buildings or city portals build before the 20th century with rustic nostalgic looks. nice nature too of course.

my 35mm F1.8G not wide enough most of the time. And if i do other stuff with it such as flowers I wish i had a 50mm prime or some kind of macro.

I still get good pictures with it but xx-24mm would be better for me together with a 50mm prime or 60mm macro.

The choices are limited especially on a DX body. Especially if 14mm is not wide enough (which is inconclusive at this point) there is only 2 choices really (nikkor 10-24mm or tokina 12-24mm). Samyang is to much distortion in architecture photography so thats not what i can use.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:42 am 
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Well the Wide Angle is generally the buyer's first acceptance that staying purely with camera brand lenses is an expensive game and a 3rd party is bought.

My Sigma 10-20, despite its distortion, did an excellent job for a couple of years.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:10 am 
They probably all have some kind of distortion or other flaws such as lesflare or CA. One thing I cant live with is that building go look like a hula hoop so any lens that does that i dont buy. So Samyang 14mm is off the list. Sigma I read about sharpness is inconsistant together with distortion problems so sharpness inconsistent is not what you want in my opinion. All wide angles have distortion problems probably but some are at a more acceptable level then others.

The Nikon 10-24mm is probably the best Image quality wise from the cheaper models (wide angle below 800 euro), but build quality wise it would be the tokina 12-24 with close to nikon performance (ca and flare problems are worse on the tokina) but sharpness from tokina and nikon are about equal. I am gonna use it mostly around F8/F10 something like that, so light is not a big deal here.

They say my 35mm F1.8G should have CA problems but I never noticed any of it so maybe its blown out of proportions.

I asked some price information from the tax free shop at the airport. So if i go on a trip i can save myself some money. But its probably just as expensive as some online shops.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:20 am 
nikonfreak wrote:
...my 35mm F1.8G should have CA problems but I never noticed any of it


Nikon bodies (pretty affectively IMHO) attempt to correct for CA and fringing so you dont need to worry too much about that.

Ive had the 10-24mm and now use the 12-24mm. I prefer the latter as it is so insanely sharp between about 16 and 24mm, and also not bad down to 12mm. The 10-24 is sharp too though.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:24 am 
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Too much reading up and not enough shooting!

If you get the opportunity, try the Sigma and other 3rd parties in a shop. Try several lenses to see if there are differences. Yes, there will be distortion but it's not like a circular fisheye.

Either that or pay the extra and go Nikon.

Enther way, no excuses for not getting everything in the shot anymore!

What you will find it that your pp skills will improve. The Sigma takes a lot of pp to get good results, but then they're good. A spirit level hot shoe mount will be useful if you're shooting on a tripod. Converging verticals will sap your equivalent focal length when straightening in photoshop more than anything else.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:27 pm 
You are absolutely right. Too much reading not enough shooting.
It's just that that all lenses have a compromise so its difficult to decide which compromise I want. Its just a shame that nikkor cheapskated on build quality on the 10-24 lens.

I might look for used models or something. BTW I can rent a nikkor 14-24 but its 30 euro a day and 300 euro deposit. Which is pretty steep I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:09 pm 
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30 Euro a day is good!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:41 pm 
A new contender came into the play today.

I can buy a second hand nikkor AF-S 12-24mm F4G DX. She wants 560 euro for it. I think its still a bit steep because current online prices are around 900 euro for brand new shiny one.

Did not see it yet but if it is in good shape I think I wanna buy it.

Also because if I ever want to sell it is only a small loss of money if any at all because maybe i can resell it for the same price (I Only sell it if I ever go full frame).

Do you guys think 560euro is a good price? I already knocked the price down because she wanted 625 euro. AF-S 12-24 is also part of the Nikkor professional user program so its considered a professional lens. But current cheapest price here is 879 euro for a brand new one. So I was thinking maybe more like 500 euro would be a better price for second hand. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Seriously - forget Nikon professional user program! Just because Nikon doesn't differentiate like "L" lenses, doesn't mean you should hang on the phrase. In terms of IQ it's in the same league as the 10-24. However if you don't use the 10-24 properly you'll be correcting in Photoshop and losing the extra 2mm anyway.


The reason for the 12-24 being in the professional user program?

Because when it was introduced Nikon did not have full frame DSLRs. The 12-24 was the widest option for the earlier DSLR bodies. Thenthings moved along with the D3 and the introduction of the 14-24 and 24-70.

Still, it's built like a tank and is a good chunk of glass. Beat her down to 500 and you've got a good deal.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:29 pm 
Well I am not even joining that professional program or anything. It's just an indicator that it is a good lens.

And the fact that there was no FX digital cameras back in the days does not mean anything.

They had AF-D lenses. So there is no reason to put any DX lens in the program except for professional build and image quality standards.

I am going to try to bargain some more. I asked her a link to some pictures she made so I can check the quality, I read that sometimes there are bad samples around. I think I really want to buy it. It will be most bang for the buck build & IQ wise. And I wont lose much on it if I ever want to get rid of it again.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:57 am
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Location: Winterpeg, Manisnowba, Canada
IMHO, the Nikon "Professional" User Program is just another excuse to brag to your buddies that you've got good gear :lol:

Getting back on topic, if you want the extra 2mm at the wide end, the 10-24 is definitely the way to go. If you want better build, a constant aperture and don't mind that you lose 2mm, the 12-24 is excellent. I personally really like the Tokina 11-16, however being 3rd party you can't guarantee that it'll work on any upcoming Nikon bodies, and it doesn't really hold its value for resale. Otherwise, a budget friendly, excellent choice. It's built like a tank and has a constant f/2.8 aperture, but you'll have to sacrifice 1mm at the wide end and a whole 8mm at the long end (which is a big compromise).

_________________
-Evan

Gear: 7 Nikon Nikkor AI-S and AF-S lenses, SB-700 flash, Nikon D7000, Nikon FM, variety of accessories

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs."
- Ansel Adams


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:26 am 
I am not the type of guy that brags around what kind of gear he has. Nobody is impressed here trust me they all want a canon overhere, nobody will listen.... But I have the feeling the only reason they want a Canon is because there friend, father, brother, sister or anyone else they know has one, not because it the best camera for them, they dont even consider any other options or at least hold it in there hands.

I think I am going to compromise the 2mm and buy the 12-24mm. It's just a better build lens then the 10-24mm and it wil keep it's value 2nd hand (as long as there is not going to be anything better and cheaper on the market anyway).

Nikon has almost no flare issues and very low distortion and very low CA problems and it's build like a tank (the 12-24 anyway).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:57 am
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Location: Winterpeg, Manisnowba, Canada
@nikonfreak
I was in no means implying that, sorry if I offended you in any way.

Anyways, enjoy your 12-24! It's an excellent lens, I'm sure that you'll have lots of fun with it.

_________________
-Evan

Gear: 7 Nikon Nikkor AI-S and AF-S lenses, SB-700 flash, Nikon D7000, Nikon FM, variety of accessories

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs."
- Ansel Adams


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:00 am 
I don't have it yet. She is trying to imply that there is a bunch of other bidders that want it. But I know the type of people on that website where its on sale. They always bid on everything but when they have to pay or make a deal you never hear from them again. So I think I still can get it for a good price. The lens is 4 year old and current new price is around 900 euro. So I offered her 525 euro. 60% of current shop price is not bad (for her) for a 4 year old lens. She is using it professionally from the pics I have seen. So its probably financially been written off anyway.


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