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 Post subject: camera noise
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:40 pm 
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I keep reading about the noise when taking pictures, especially using higher ISO. What noise are they talking about exactly as I have never experienced it.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:16 pm 
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ImageImage

Noise is the digital equivalent to film grain, and it is more clearly visible when using high ISOs. Click on the thumbnails above to see the difference between a clean image (left) and a noisy image (right).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:20 pm 
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I just give a link to Cameralabs: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon ... JPEG.shtml

Here you can see the high ISO noise of the newest Canon DSLR. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:33 pm 
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Location: Welland, Ontario, Canada
Take a picture on ISO 100 and then take the same picture on ISO 6400.

Depending on what camera you have...You'll see that the picture taken with ISO 6400 is going to look like somebody sprinkled colorful sand all over your picture.

This is what we call NOISE.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Pete stole the words right out of my mouth.

I sometimes also think of noise as big coloured pixels that appear when you use higher ISOs.

Photography is pretty much a compromise. For example, using higher ISO will let you use a faster shutter speed on account of the sensor is more sensitive to light, but it will also produce noisy images. Another compromise is aperture; a faster aperture may let you use a faster shutter speed, but fast lenses are more expensive and the depth of field can get too shallow for your liking. Another compromise is zoom lenses, a zoom lens is more convenient that a prime, but it isn't as sharp nor as fast.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:02 pm 
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just on noise and how the sensor is more sensitive to light.
This may sound stupid, but if I ask less from the sensor will it be able to reduce noise.

ie If I got a 18MP sensor but reduce the size of the photo from large jpg fine to medium jpg fine will the noise be less or just less obvious or no difference?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:41 pm 
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Good question. I just shot these two photos outside. Canon 500D, 18-55mmIS @ 18mm. Both were ISO6400, f18, 1/2500. The only difference is I did one on large fine, the other on medium fine. All other settings (noise reduction) were default.

First up, large fine jpeg:

Image

As you can see, ISO6400 on the 500D is pretty terrible. Next up, more or less the same photo, but using medium fine quality:

Image

As you can see here, the image is quite a bit smaller. As a comparison, I've resized the large jpeg to be the same size as the medium:

Image

I think this image has slightly more detail, in the bricks for example. It is hard to tell from this particular image.

But long story short, on a pixel by pixel basis, you will get less noise by recording on medium jpeg, but in doing so you are sacrificing image size. Shooting large jpeg and resizing will give you a bit more detail than simply shooting in medium.

Of course, these tests have ignored RAW and subsequent processing with software based noise reduction.

EDIT: Here is almost the same photo, but at ISO100, 1/40, f18. Probably 10 minutes later in the day than the other two, but it gives you an idea.

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:04 am 
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nice one, so it does work in a fashion. I am at work, will have a try myself when I get home.

I guess sometimes photography is all about compromise sacrificing image size for less noise is one of those.

I know the reviews are a lot of work and a lot of details goes in them already, but maybe there should be a noise comparison at reduced MP`s.
Its not like every shot needs to be at the full 18MP of new Canon`s sensor.


S how would noise on 7D compare to the Nikon 300s if the Canon had its output reduced to produce a matching file?


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 Post subject: Noise
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:24 pm 
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Thanks for all your input everyone. I guess the word "noise" is a little mileading. Grainy describes is perfectly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Noise describes it perfectltly from an engineering standpoint, where you have a base signal, and a noise floor. Besides, grain looks way different than noise is my experience. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:13 pm 
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Quote:
S how would noise on 7D compare to the Nikon 300s if the Canon had its output reduced to produce a matching file?


Care to send me both a 7D and a D300s so I can do further testing? :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:14 am 
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I'd like to intervene here: don't stare yourself blind on noise performance (or imagequality in general). Really, it's not a huge difference in practice. I have shot stage performances with my D90, and an 8 year old D2H (4 megapixels). When coupled with the same lens, and resized to web formats, the difference was negledgible.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:30 am 
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I'll link a photo of an ISO 102,400 photo , I can just say that it looks horrible with THAT much noise xD

Image

to the left: ISO 51,200 and right: ISO 102,400

actually I never touch H1/H2/H3 settings ISO 25600, 51200 and 102,400

those r barely usable.

I just stick to ISO 50 - 6400.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:01 pm 
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I have some photos from a recent wedding I attended that accidentally were shot at 1600 ISO. I've been planning to get some sort of noise reduction software anyway so it seems that this is the time to do it.

Any suggestions on which to buy?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:22 pm 
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The noise reduction software all come with trial versions so try them and see what works best for you. I went with neat image, but noise ninja and topaz denoise are others I've tried. There's even a free one but I can't remember the name...

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