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 Post subject: Too many options
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:04 am 
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I've hit the wall of paralysis of analysis. Time frame to purchase-Christmas 2007 or sooner if I don't wait for newer models. Money to spend- up to $5,500 US.

Body's considered after researching:
Olympus (4/3 system; wait for E-1's successor? Lenses appear to be very high quality, but only good on Olympus equipment, E-1 is too slow on fps, successor could be Olympus' real break through).
Canon 30D; (or do I wait for 40D?, possible no sensor dust issue?
Nikon D200
Fujifilm S5 Pro
Lenses: Bodies will probably be changed out every 4-5 years. Lenses will last forever.....Do I limit myself by going Olympus? I'd get 7-14 / 14-54 / and 50-200mm. However, reviewers say Canon and Nikon are only way to go. How important is the sensor dust issue if I keep changing lenses.

Photography is my hobby--not my profession. I've never shot digital before so I'm starting from scratch equipment wise after shooting a film SLR which I've given to my son. Whichever body I purchase, I will get an exterior flash unit. As such, how critical is a 2.8 aperture lenses. The purists say ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY ESSENTIAL! If I go Canon, I think I'd get 10-22mm 3.5-4.5 / 17-55mm 2.8 L IS or 17-85mm 3.5-5.6 and 70-200 2.8 L IS lenses. If I go Nikon, I'm a little more confused. I'd look at 12-24mm f.4 / and the 18-200mm 3.5 - 5.6 VR. But, for as many people who love it, there are many who say it is WAY TOO slow! Again the 2.8 issue looms.....While most of my shooting will be vacations, landscapes and family gatherings around the house and at restaurants, there will be times I shoot sports--indoors and out. Also, some theater / dance recitals. If I don't get the 18 - 200 VR , the Nikon 18-55 3.5 - 5.6 is noted to have the same image quality as the 17-55 2.8 for 10X less $ by Ken Rockwell. Again, your thoughts on the 2.8 issue. Also, Nikon's 17-55 2.8 isn't VR like the Canon 17-55 IS L. Does that give Canon the edge in this size lens and tip me towards the 30 or 40D? Lastly, like the Canon for telephoto, I'd consider Nikon's 70-200 2.8 VR. Both Nikon and Canon's lens of this size appear to be incredible.

I've held the 30D and D200. Both feel very good in my hands. The E-1 feels good too, but because it's too slow in frames per second (I'd like 5 at least) I'd definitely wait for its successor. I've not seen the Fuji, but read very good things about it and it uses the Nikon lenses........ I've seen top quality pictures with all the cameras and lenses. I realize there is no one best camera / lens combination in this price range, but given the above parameters, I'd appreciate your opinion on Olympus vs Canon 30D / 40D vs Fuji S5 vs D200.

Lastly, out of curiosity, without any necessary correlation to above, one lens probably stays on most peoples camera much more than any other. If YOU could buy any SLR body, an external flash, and only one lens......what would YOU choose and why.

Thanks so much for your help and advice.
MJM


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 Post subject: One less option
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:03 am 
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Hi MJM,

Wow, fantastic budget! At the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest, some people on the net have questioned the long term viability of the Olympus 4/3rds system. The smaller sensor is more likely to introduce picture noise because it has less light to work with. As I remember it, part of the rational for choosing a 4/3rds format was that that was what televisions and computer monitors looked like. Well, the world is very rapidly going widescreen!

Current rumour suggests the Canon 40D will be released in late September or early October. That may be a load of tosh but you are in the happy position of being able to wait until then before you decide.

You have already spotted how important it is to buy into the correct lens system and with your budget you will have enough cash left over to buy a more than decent body whichever system you choose. On the assumption that you are comfortable with one or more camera bodies from each company I suggest you concentrate your research on lenses initially and then choose the body.

There is lots of good advice on this and other sites about what various lenses are best at. A fast lens can essentially do two things that a slower lens with image stabilisation can't do. It can give you a pleasing out of focus background and it can help freeze motion because of the faster shutter speed it allows.

At your budget, and at the risk of upsetting the Nikon fanboys, I would choose the Canon 5D. The full frame sensor is a big part of this - read Gordon's review for more reasons. My lens choice would be the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM. This is actually the kit lens ( :!: ) in the UK and the two together cost around $4000. I own this lens for use on my XTi. On a full frame sensor it covers you from wideangle to just into telephoto. Although the 5D body plus an EF 28-300 f/3.5-5.6L IS USM is just in budget and is enormously flexible I think I would find the size and weight a bit much unless I was on safari.

So with a 5D and an EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM there is more than enough left in the budget for a flash unit of your choice and other toys or, straying outside your brief of just one lens, an EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM.

You might have noticed that I already have the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM and EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM lenses so would you like to guess what my dream body is (apart from Kylie 8) )?

Bob.

_________________
OM-D E-M1 + ED 12-40mm f/2.8, H-F007014E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75mm 1:1.8, L-RS014150E.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:32 am 
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Hi MJM, welcome to the Cameralabs forums - and as Bob says, nice budget!

Since you're looking at mid to high-end DSLRs and investing quite a lot of cash, I'd definitely wait a couple of months to see what the Canon 40D will be like, not to mention the forthcoming - and much leaked - Olympus pro DSLR.

In the meantime it's well worth having a look through some of the lenses you've mentioned if possible, and also building up an idea of which manufacturer's bodies you most like the look and feel of as new models are physically unlikely to be a huge departure from what's come before. It's great that you're thinking carefully about lenses, as they will probably play a deciding role in which system you'll end up purchasing.

What you haven't said though is what kind of photography you're into. Will you be doing any specialist work, like sports, wildlife, portraiture etc? This could influence your choice of system...

Gordon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:59 am 
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As a quick first snap at that fat budget/question:
If you go Nikon and don't mind changing lenses, the followong set would be fantastic:
- 70-200/F2.8 VR (1800EUR)
- 12-24/F4 (1000EUR)
- 24-120/F3.5-5.6 VR (600EUR)
----------------------3400EUR=4300$--------------
come to my mind. Sou can use a converter on the 70-200 and it has great optical quality. If you'd buy a flash plus D200, you're a little over budget but then you can swap the 24-120 for a kit lens 18-70mm and be done with it...
or skip the wide angel below all together (as the 12-24 is certainly the best wide-angle here but a tad expensive) and start at 18mm.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:59 am 
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Sounds like you have been talking to a Canon guy about importance of speed :) When I think of high aperture values the first thing is the DOF control I get and then low light shooting. You have much more control with a lens with f/2.8 then f/5.6 which is great for portrait and family gartherings where you want to single out objects/people. As Bob I would probably also go with the Canon 5D but would probably buy two primes instead of another zoom :) or perhaps the 70-200/4L + two primes 28/2.8 and 50/1.4? But I don't mind changing lenses and really like what you get out of primes much more than with zooms which you might not agree on.

Sony is also about to release a couple of new cameras/lenses that might interest you. Lens price is really high on new Sony lenses at the moment though but the old Minoltas are great deals.

IMHO Ken Rockwell is a weird angry man, he might be a good artist but reviewer he is not, can't really compare those two lenses because of different aperture (has also seen a compact/DSLR comparison on his page!?!) - stick with what you read in Gordons reviews those are much more reliable.

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Minolta primes: 2.8/20 2.8/24 1.7/50 2.8/135
Minolta zooms: 28-135 35-70 70-210(beercan) kit
Minolta cameras: Dynax 5D 7000
M42: Pentax Asahi S-M-C Takumar 1.4/50 and 2.8/105 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35 Industar-61L/Z Kiron 2.8/105 Macro


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:29 pm 
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To answer your last question:
Only one lens = the Nikon 18-200mm VR!
(plus D80 plus SB-800 naturally)
You can do almost everything with it apart from ultrawide, ultralong and macro...

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Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses


Last edited by Thomas on Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Too many options
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:23 pm 
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MJM wrote:
Lastly, out of curiosity, without any necessary correlation to above, one lens probably stays on most peoples camera much more than any other. If YOU could buy any SLR body, an external flash, and only one lens......what would YOU choose and why.


*ponders*

I'd have to say I'd get the Hasselblad 503CWD.

Because it's lovely.

Oh, and it comes with a Carl Zeiss Planar CFE 2.8/80 mm lens.

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Nikon D90 + MB-D80 + SB-600 + AF-S VR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 + AF-S 35mm f/1.8 + AF 85mm f/1.8 | My photos on Flickr.


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 Post subject: Beautiful
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:30 pm 
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luis,

Thank you for reminding me how beautiful Hasselblads are! For those who have forgotten, as I had, look at the picture at the top of the brochure to be reminded.

Trouble is I would want to place it in its own display cabinet with suitable accent lighting rather than get my fingerprints all over it!

Bob.

_________________
OM-D E-M1 + ED 12-40mm f/2.8, H-F007014E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75mm 1:1.8, L-RS014150E.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:04 pm 
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Hi MJM,

I have no idea whether this is good information or not but if you want a teaser on the Canon EOS 40D head on over to endgadget.

That page has a number of other links to follow for more gossip and information. The 40D might just be worth the wait, especially if the August 20th. release date is true.

Bob.

EDIT 4: To see the pictures (purporting) to be of the 40D have a look at this thread

Here is a teaser list of features:
    Sensor 1.6x - 10 MP Self cleaning sensor
    3 inch LCD with LiveView
    Formats JPG, RAW and sRAW
    ISO 100 to 1600 in steps of 1/3
    Shooting speed 6.25 fps
    Buffer 75 JPG or 17 RAW
    Available grip BG-E2
    Possible DIGIC3


The product announcement is expected before the end of August 2007.

_________________
OM-D E-M1 + ED 12-40mm f/2.8, H-F007014E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75mm 1:1.8, L-RS014150E.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:55 pm 
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The 5D is only 3 FPS in continous mode. Just to let you know about that. I too have put off my potential purchase. I too am very interested in the 40D. Nice budget too. I do recommend the D200S or whatever nikon calls it. It will be the d200 replacement. It will be available when you decide to buy it. I also recommend the 18-200 VR like tombomba. The 18-200VR and the 12-24 will make a great kit with a nice nikon flash. I hope this helps.

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rv65
C-5050Z | SD700IS (IXUS800 IS) | JamCam | Quantaray RZ 800 w/ 50mm prime lens (just found but broken) (aka Cosina CT-7, Various other brands) | EOS 50D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:30 pm 
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The canon 40D could possibly be weathersealed.

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C-5050Z | SD700IS (IXUS800 IS) | JamCam | Quantaray RZ 800 w/ 50mm prime lens (just found but broken) (aka Cosina CT-7, Various other brands) | EOS 50D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:15 pm 
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I would expect the 40D to be tougher than a D80, but not quite in the same league as a D200. I'm also guessing approx 12 Mpixels, anti-dust of some description, 5fps and a 3in screen. It'll be interesting if they also add a live view feature like the 1D Mark III...

Remember, both Canon and Nikon are expected to make new product announcements later this month, so anyone in the market for a new DSLR - or indeed a new compact - should consider waiting a couple of weeks to see what happens!

Gordon


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