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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:31 pm 
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I need to purchase a DSLR and lens for photographing houses ( for my work renting Villas). The photos to be published online..To show properties & landscapes in there best light
(So a zoom would be useful). I have used DSLRs previously but have never purchased 1-I have been rumbling along with a point and shoot & have realized the hard way the clear difference in quality & hence now the reason for my dilemma.

My limitations;
- Budget - Aim 800.00 for both camera & lens

My research thus far
From some of my reading I have read that;
> that a lens is more important than the camera?
> need a wide angle lens somewhere 14 and up?

My assumptions;
~ If I first locate a lens which is best?
~ then look to match it with a DSLR that has the minimum requirement (to not affect the quality)?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Generally speaking, yes the lens is far more important than the body.

If you're going to be shooting during the day, you can probably get away with an older, used but much less expensive DSLR whose lower light sensitivity will be less of a problem.

We can't really advise which lens is "best" until you decide which body you get.

When you said you have a budget of 800, which currency is that?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:16 am 
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Rorschach wrote:
Generally speaking, yes the lens is far more important than the body.

If you're going to be shooting during the day, you can probably get away with an older, used but much less expensive DSLR whose lower light sensitivity will be less of a problem.

We can't really advise which lens is "best" until you decide which body you get.

When you said you have a budget of 800, which currency is that?


Thank you for your reply - my intended maximum budget is €800.00

I mostly aim to shoot houses mid-day, but often do find myself in poor light as it is appointment and opportunity based work, but this sounds like a good compromise and then in a year look at a upgrade camera (but having the ideal lens).
I was reading yesterday the at the Cannon 'Sigma 10-22mm Lens' was the best for real estate, also the Tamron lens - my concern with these is when i shoot a house and garden this would be fine, but when i need to zoom say for beach close-up from distance or scenery shot of surrounding countryside etc? does this mean that i would need change lens or is there a suitable lens for both house interiors/exteriors and then a different lens for the other distance shots?

I once used a fuji which had the movable viewfinder i found this very useful for getting the perfect wide angle shot - so would love another with this feature - I was reading about the snazzy cannon d70 (expensive), but it has the movable viewfinder i note.

I Very much look forward to your ideas.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:04 am 
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Assuming that you're talking about the 70D, it does indeed have an articulated screen (the viewfinder is fixed :mrgreen: ) but the 600D and Nikon D5100 also have articulated screens and both are much less expensive - you can probably find them for around €400 if you look hard enough. For stills of architecture, properties or landscapes, you could do a lot, lot worse than either, especially if you use a decent lens with them.

If image quality is particularly important and you want to spend minimal time with post processing, you'll almost certainly need at least two lenses for wide-angle shots and one for distance as the options available (especially for Canon) compromise image quality for flexibility in terms of zoom range. With that said, the image quality with such lenses (Canon or Nikon 18-200mm) is considerably better than you can hope to get with point and shoot.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:17 am 
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I read that there is a new EOS 70D with movable viewfinder, maybe its a new version? http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/ ... ct_images/

But thank you for your suggestions on the '600D and Nikon D5100' also with articulated screens - this is great to know
What would your choice be from these - bearing in mind my uses? :)
And i take it you suggest 'NIKON'?

As for the lens - thank you again - this is kinda what i was thinking..

As for a lens for wide angle for interiors of rooms - what would be your suggestion? :?:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:47 pm 
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philosopher wrote:
I read that there is a new EOS 70D with movable viewfinder, maybe its a new version? http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/ ... ct_images/

By viewfinder, I mean the optical viewfinder as in the part you put your eye to. It would be impractical for it to be movable as it relies on all sorts of components to be in perfect harmony. The 70D does have an articulated screen but it's not the type of Canon camera to have a "Mark II" version and it's only been on the market for a few months. :wink:

philosopher wrote:
But thank you for your suggestions on the '600D and Nikon D5100' also with articulated screens - this is great to know
What would your choice be from these - bearing in mind my uses? :)
And i take it you suggest 'NIKON'?

I would suggest keeping an open mind. Most of us would agree that choosing a camera is a very personal choice and should be based on your own experience handling and using it rather than second hand experience. I only suggested those two cameras as examples of what would fit within your budget and both are too Sony and Pentax do good cameras too though I'm much less familiar with both of those brands but I'd never discount them though Pentax can be more difficult to find lenses for.

I'd almost put money on saying it's worth your while visiting a CE, photography or department store to handle the cameras for yourself. Your preconceptions based on online reviews may be confirmed or completely rubbished when you actually use the cameras yourself or you may find two or three cameras too similar to choose between based on reviews but when you actually try them out, the debate can be settled quite quickly.

philosopher wrote:
As for a lens for wide angle for interiors of rooms - what would be your suggestion? :?:

I don't feel you can go wrong with either the Canon or Sigma 10-22mm if you go down the Canon route and I wouldn't recommend against them. I personally use a Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 (available for Canon, Nikon and Sony), which I think is sharp even when wide open but it is also rather expensive.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Thank you for your useful advice - most helpful indeed,

I will indeed look to trial the cameras at a shop as it has been a long time since i have tried a proper DSLR. I want either a NIKON or Cannon so i will look to make a choice between them. If a Cannon i think i will look to the Sigma 10-22.

I am still a little confused as to what wide angle lens might be good for a NIKON for interior photos of houses.
I have read that a 14 mm starting point is recommended for real-estate but i am confused as to how high this can be stretched and still remain the advantage of the wide angle for interiors?

i am confused as to how far above a 14 as a starting point i can go.
I have found your - Tokina AT-X PRO AT-X 116 PRO DX for Nikon 11-16 mm f/2.8 AF DX Lens Nikon - on Ebay for £379.00 (similar price to the Sigma 10 - 22mm)
- Tell me - this would have no real zoom? But i would imagine it has a nice wide angle lens? What do you use it for?

If i were to purchase - either a '600D and Nikon D5100' what in your opinion is the best overall thinking as for MP, Low light and user ability?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:29 pm 
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The Tokina lens does have a zoom range, albeit a small one but that's the consequence of having a fixed aperture - it limits the zoom range if you wish to keep the price and size down. I chose it over the 10-22mm because of its sharpness rather than the f/2.8 aperture.

Between the 600D and the D5100, it's too close to say one is decisively better. Megapixels are most meaningful when doing large prints or you crop images heavily - the 600D has 10% more pixels so you'd have to to very large prints to notice an appreciable difference, particular when shooting at a lower ISO level. The D5100 may have less noise at a higher ISO with it having a newer sensor but usability is completely subjective - I find iOS devices clumsy and less than user-friendly despite many saying otherwise. In a similar vein, I prefer Canon's ergonomics and its menu over Nikon's but others may have different views.

As I said, an open mind is the best way to arm yourself.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:35 pm 
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Wow thank you Sir... Fantastic info... Really useful again....

You are doing me a great service thank you.
All this technical jargon is a little confusing.

So far I think I have decided on the D5100 for the movable LCD screen - this is he'll useful when your back to the wall and you want to see the photo your taking high to low across a small room. And I believe it maybe ok in dim light. You have cleared up for me the pixel concern. If not for the screen I want I would have gone for the 3100 I think reading some reviews.. :)

The only matter I am still unsure of is the lens. I read a review on tokina -but then many we're advising that it does not auto focus well. I read the sigma 10-22mm which said it focuses well?? What's your thoughts on this point?

Many Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:21 pm 
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I've had no problems with the Tokina lens in the near three years I've had it. How thorough were the reviews by those who complained about the autofocus?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:07 am 
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I cant locate the original 'auto focus' issue article - but just found this one, from amazon, i just need be sure me as an amateur photographer can take quick photos quickly when viewing properties to rent as i often have little time to play with camera settings (and or experience with DSLR's ';) ) - The auto focus when i find the shot needs to be spot and wide view and full of detail and light to the best possible automatic setting - i have realised i need raise my game and photo resolution hence the research in top investment in an appropriate lens to fit to the minimum possible DSLR which can drive it - for my budget.

http://www.amazon.com/Tokina-11-16mm-AT ... B007ORX8ME
------------------------

59 of 66 people found the following review helpful
3.0 out of 5 stars Great lens, bad autofocus., October 9, 2012
By Thomas S. Cureton - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
This review is from: Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 AT-X116 Pro DX II Digital Zoom Lens (AF-S Motor) (for Nikon Cameras) (Camera)
I picked up the newest "DX II" version of this lens, the successor to the phenomenal 11-16 atx pro dx, based on how good the old version was. Optically, it's still the great lens the old one was. I can't see any benefit or difference the "new improved coatings" makes. It still does have the same sun flares that the old one had, but only in abusive situations (direct sunshine at an angle entering from the sides). So I can't really see the improvements in the coatings. Its a light magnet for sure, roughly a full f-stop faster than its competitors. The zoom feel is great---smooth and no creep when pointed down. Its definitely well built, and better optically than any other wide-for-nikon I've tried.

BUT...this model, which does have its own a/f motor built in, repeated fails to focus. It hunts, and usually locks just behind the subject. At far focus, it always goes beyond infinity all the way to the hard stop at the far end of its travel. This really lets down a great lens, which can be tack-sharp when focused manually, but only about 50% of the time when using automatic focus. Shooting at or above F/8 does help, but the lower f/2.8 is why I bought this lens in the first place, so I'm a little disappointed. I verified this on two bodies...the D5000 and a D90. Its not just the sample i have...Ken Rockwell stated a similar issue in his review of this lens as well. Hopefully this is a first run issue and Tokina will get the bugs worked out soon. If you have a Nikon with a built in motor, get the old version and skip this one for now. If you have a 3000, 5000, 3100, 3200, 5100, wait for the kinks to be worked out first. Im sure Tokina will get this corrected, and it will be a fantastic lens. Then its a 5 star product for sure!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:04 pm 
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I've experienced no such trouble so I can't comment on their feedback.

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