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 Post subject: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:03 am 
Normally I research the hell out of something before asking for advice. However, I do not even know where to really begin as there are an incredible amount of choices for what I am looking for.

I am hoping you guys can narrow my search a bit so that I can then begin researching in a more productive manor.

Here are my needs/wants;

1. I am looking for more of an automatic camera with not so much need for so many manual controls.
2. I still however, would like as high end picture quality and video on offer as is possible.
3. I am a rock cimber and want this camera to take good close up shots of hands or feet on the rock as well as needing to zoom in on friends high up on the wall.
4. I do not require tiny pocket sized but do not want such a big unit that it is hard to pack away in my pack on multi-pitch climbs.
5. Price I think around $400-500 but this is not set in stone.
6. I would like it to be able to take rapid fire shots.
7. Simple to use!

My friend has the Canon G11 and my sister the EOS something. They have a lot of manual controls I would not use as I am more point and shoot. I like the picture and video quality; some of my shots are and will be used for magazines and websites. I know I should be better with manual but.....

I'm sure there are a few more wants but maybe you have some ideas already for me.

Thank You.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:09 am 
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Hi Joe,

May I wish you a warm welcome to the CameraLabs forum.

Anything to do with rock climbing is way outside my comfort zone (if you saw me you'd know why! :lol: ) so all I can do is potentially broaden your wish list and make one suggestion. Maybe you'd like to add weatherproofing and shock resistance to your wish-list? As for my suggestion, and this is not made from personal knowledge of the camera or intended to imply that there aren't equivalent models out there from other manufacturers...

Would a camera such as the Nikon Coolpix AW100 be good enough? The only review I found after a quick search does flag up the usual concern about the IQ from such a small sensor but that may or may not be an issue for you, depending on the lighting conditions, the size of the prints required and the amount of effort you want to put into post-processing the images.

Or are you definitely looking for something with a bigger/better sensor even if that is at the cost of portability and ability to cope with the extremes?

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:24 pm 
Hi Bob

Thank you for your quick response. Actually it does not need to be so robust and weatherproof. I am not an Alpinist prefering cimbing rock faces which needs to be done in good weather.

I am looking for something with as good a sensor as possible. I want to be able to take as high quality phots AND video as possible. So it can be a littel more bulky than a typical point and shoot. Something along the lines of the G12 I think. However, upon researching it is funny to see such up an own reviews on the same product. For example on a couple sites the G12 is rated at like 98% but on others 68%.

I am learning but still not very well informed about the technical aspects of cameras. I just learned the other day from a friend that pixels aren't everything and that sensor size was critical. I had no idea. So I would like a great sensor for all light conditions.

Rgds,

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:54 am 
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Hi Joe,

I don't review cameras and rarely do more than skim reviews of compact cameras so all I can do is offer random thoughts but have you read Gordon's review of the Canon PowerShot S100 (here). If it isn't right for you then tell us why and maybe other forum members will be able to take up the baton and offer a better suggestion.

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:19 am 
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Location: Alexandra, Central Otago, NZ
Hi there I can relate a little to what you are after having spent nearly 20 years climbing all over Europe and taking photos whilst we are at it.

I have used a dslr and a compact point and shoot for much of our weekends away from shooting down on people following me up whilst belaying as they tackle the crux.

I have also photographed a lot of my mates bouldering at fontainbleu so I can guess at what you are looking for.

For many years I used a canon Ixus as they had a great image stabilizer and good quality photo at low iso.

When I had time to take the photo and compose the shot I used my canon d300 which I recently replaced with a canon d550.

I strongly recommend that if you are looking at taking time to compose your shot or looking at multiple lenses then dslr is a great way forward and the bundle deals are great in that you can get a zoom lens in addition to the standard kit lens for under a grand.

If you want something you can clip to your harness and quickly grab a great shot them I would recommend looking at the canon powershot A series (A4000) IS. Which is a great point and shoot compact at 16megapixels and uses canons digic 4 processor with their great image stabilizer and some pretty cool functions including the ability to shoot in programme mode at ISO 100 and adjust your exposure.

I have to say that I am a canon fan and that Nikon do a very similar range at very similar prices and just as good a quality.

There are cameras that will fit both the bills but I have found that I use the dslr a lot when I am on the ground and use the compact when I am climbing.

I have grabbed some superb shots of sun sets over the gower or in north west Scotland at the end of a day on my compact but then I have some great shots of us climbing in the lakes or in sardinia on my dslr.

For me the best set up is 2 cameras. If I had to go with just one it would probably be driven by budget in which case the point and shoot does enough to cover the scope. The dslr gives you the extra level of control of the shot and therefore raises the bar.

Just my 2p.

:D

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Canon 550D, Canon EFS 17-85 IS USM, Canon EF 75-300 IS USM, Canon EFS 10-22mm USM, Canon EF35mm F2.

Got some of the gear but really still no idea...:)


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Bob Andersson wrote:
I don't review cameras and rarely do more than skim reviews of compact cameras so all I can do is offer random thoughts but have you read Gordon's review of the Canon PowerShot S100 (here).

That' the camera I first had to think about, too. It's a compact camera with a relatively big CMOS sensor and a relatively bright lens and better internal JPG processing with a Digic V processor and it has the new hybrid image stabilizer. So a lot of good stuff pressed in a little package. :D
The S95 had a shorter zoom range, which made it quite uninteresting for me, but the 5x zoom is OK. Well - like about any "better" compact it has some manual controls but as with the most professional DSLRs: you don't have to use it.
The only really better compact I can think of is the Canon Powershot G1X, which has an even lower noise level than the EOS 550D / 600D / 60D / 7D DSLRs.
But sadly it's more expensive.

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Canon EF 28-80mm 3.5-5.6 USM + EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 50mm 1.8 II + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:52 am 
Hi Robbin44. Thank you for your 2p. I ca obviously see the advantages of having two cameras but ever since I was little i have had an aversion to them and can't stand having my photos taken or taking them myself. However, i am a dad kno and my little girl deserves photos of herself. She just craked up a 5.8 chimney the other day and the crappy litle point and shoot I had blew it big time. So I think one camera of the in-between variety would be best for me.

The G1x looks like a winner but it is just too expensive for someone like me who would waste it for what it is intended for.

The S100 I googled and so far it is looking pretty good. Only couple issues that I saw come up that I need to look into more. The big one is the recall alert for parts falling off inside 'especially during hot and humid weather". I live in China at the moment and where I am at is both hot and humid. There was other issues with the lens cap sticking open. Not sure if these have been addressed and fixed yet need to look into it more.

The second thing had to do with the zoom. Sorry for my lack of tech talk here but it said somehing along the lines of the more you zoom the worst the pictures are becuase of the amount of light being let in f.(???) and in turn this causes the shots to become shaky and blurry at high zoom.

Any comment on this?

Other than that it looks great! Video looks perfect, simple to use, and so many other bonuses.

Maybe these issues are not issues at all. I look forward to your boards expertise on this.

Rgds,

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:53 am 
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ontherocks wrote:
The second thing had to do with the zoom. Sorry for my lack of tech talk here but it said somehing along the lines of the more you zoom the worst the pictures are becuase of the amount of light being let in f.(???) and in turn this causes the shots to become shaky and blurry at high zoom.

That's a problem with about any zoom lens that's not really heavy, expensive or a prime lens without zoom. It just says: If your shots get blurry, raise the ISO and / or zoom out and get closer. In the wide angle the S100 is pretty awesome and lets more light in than most other compact cameras do with their lenses.

The best cameras to use in humid weather are ...
Bob Andersson wrote:
Maybe you'd like to add weatherproofing and shock resistance to your wish-list?


Those cameras are pretty nice and can take about anything - I thought of a Canon Powershot D20 myself as a resistant and small addition to my DSLR.

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Canon EOS 500D + Canon EOS 5D Mark III + Canon EOS 33v
Canon EF 28-80mm 3.5-5.6 USM + EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 50mm 1.8 II + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:14 am 
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Hi Joe,

Zoom/Blurry/f-number. It's actually more about diffraction: small sensors tend to have small pixels and that means that the lens has to work harder. In photographic terms that means a small f-number is needed. When zoomed out this typically isn't an issue for good quality compacts but when zoomed in the limited diameter of the lens means that the f-number rapidly increases beyond the point where the lens can out-resolve the sensor's pixels.

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Location: Alexandra, Central Otago, NZ
In other words unless you are using an expensive lens or high quality zoom you will necessarily see a drop in quality (fuzziness ) in the cheaper compact cameras that offer digital zooms etc. As the cameras are using smaller sensors, dont have stabilizing technology or are designed for landscape / portrait shooting at close quarters.

The S100 is a great choice an I looked at this one also but budget was my confining factor so plumped for a cheaper option.

_________________
Canon 550D, Canon EFS 17-85 IS USM, Canon EF 75-300 IS USM, Canon EFS 10-22mm USM, Canon EF35mm F2.

Got some of the gear but really still no idea...:)


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:32 am 
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About any compact camera offers digital zoom but just forget it. It's like cropping and increasing the image size afterwards on the computer. Bigger files but no better quality.

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Canon EOS 500D + Canon EOS 5D Mark III + Canon EOS 33v
Canon EF 28-80mm 3.5-5.6 USM + EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM + EF 100-400mm 4.5-5.6L IS USM + EF 50mm 1.8 II + EF 100mm 2.8L Macro IS USM + Sigma 12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM + Canon Speedlite 580 EX II + Nissin Speedlite Di 466


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 Post subject: Re: So Many Choices!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:56 am 
I don't use forums very often but when I do it always amazes me at how strangers help each other out. I appreciate you guys taking the time to reply and assist me with this.

Googling more and more and it still looks like in this class/catagory the S100 is coming out on top. Unless I want to go to a bigger bulkier more expensive DSLR or a cheaper point and shoot it looks like this may be my next camera purchase.

How about the problems with the parts falling off inside? Has that issue been completely resolved and new S100's will not have this problem?

Is there any other camera options that I should seriously look at before making final decision that would give the S100 a run for its money?

I have one other little question that maybe you can help with. I bought my daughter a Samsung ES28 for her birthday. Problem is the battery. I have googled thi to death and cannot find a definitive answer. Batteries die after only a couple pics so want to use rechargeable. From what I found people are saying to use NiMh 2500mah or Lithium Ion in particular SLB-11A. I will need to order online so want to get the right ones to start. So which is it?

Joe


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