Camera Labs

So I've been conducting some research (a nice break from my grad research ) trying to decide what the best deal for myself is. This Christmas my grandmother made it possible for me to make a dream come true - purchase my first DSLR.

Currently I'm between a Nikon D90 kit for $750 or a Canon 450D / SXi which also includes the following for $950:

"~original packaging + Software discs
~Canon 75-300 mm Zoom Lens
~Tamron Aspherical AF28-80mm Lens
~Zeikos Pro Telephoto Lens
~Zeikos Pro Wide Angle Lens
~Zeikos Ultraviolet, Polarizer, and Fluorescent Filters
~Bower Digital Macro +1, +2, +4 lenses
~Bower UV filter
~Zeikos Flash
~7' Tripod w/ bendable legs
~16Gb/240min SD card
~2 Batteries + Charger
~Body Armour protective casing
~extra lens covers, plus lens hood
~kit bag that carries all of this!"

I figure for an extra $200, the Canon deal is pretty sweet; however, $200 would also go a ways toward a lens for the Nikon. So, really the only thing that keeps me considering the Nikon is the video.

What would you do?

That's a tough one... I should have a better look at the D90 since it's a far better camera. BUT, the 450D has some nice extras. Do remember though those lenses are not the greatest: Theyre not very sharp.

Those Zeikos lenses are no lenses, that you know it! Those are simply BAD QUALITY converters which work like wideangle or telephoto lenses. So, you have to think if it's worth that extra money over the D90... I guess all the Zeikos stuff you really wont use because of the quality Im afraid...

Of course those SD cards and two lenses instead of only one are tempting, but if I were you Id buy the D90, and look for a used telephotolens. If you finally bought the D90 you may find you even dont want telephotolenses, so, dont buy any lens for now.

Id say GO NIKON. I have Canon and Minolta stuff, and Im not a fanboy. I have to say I love the D90 a lot....

Good luck with your purchase,
cheers

_________________
Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

Thanks for your input Ruben! You make some excellent points. I should mention that the Nikon I am looking at also includes a 4 GB sd card. Makes the choice easier?

A bit...
All I can say now is with the 450D you pay for a good camera with two not so good lenses. I only heared things about the 28-80, I dont own one.

It really suprises me the D90 was cheaper. Id buy the D90, with the kit-lens (which kitlens? 18-55 or 18-105?).
Anyway, if you have got some more money -when buying the D90- you can buy after a period a budget telezoom:) They are around $180-250.

cheers

_________________
Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

The kit lense for the D90 is 18-105, which I imagine will be enough for a little while. Though I would like to get a 200mm+ lens eventually. The $200 saved from the Canon would be a nice start towards one. Although I think I would buy an addition battery, charger and bag first... nothing's cheap is it? The D90 is only cheaper because it is being sold privately - seller upgraded.

Maybe you should read Gordon's reviews of both 450D and D90.
Then decide which camera will fit you better.

Even if you buy a bag $40, battery $15 an extra charger you dont really need, you have lots of money extra.

_________________
Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

Hi Special,

May I wish you a warm welcome to the CameraLabs community.

Looking at the pricing from B&H (one of our affiliate stores) the EOS Rebel T2i with the optically excellent EF-S/18-55 IS kit lens (review) can be had for around $800. That may just leave enough room in the budget if you can grab a little overtime for the Canon EF-S 55-250mm f4-5.6 IS (review) which seems to be around $220.

I don't review cameras but I'm not personally convinced by that 450D package you describe - maybe I'm just overcautious. The camera is clearly pre-owned, it doesn't come with the standard kit lens you'd expect and those Zeikos lenses may not be worth much at all when you look carefully at the results of combining them with a regular lens. The Tamron 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical AF only achieves an equivalent field of view to a 45-128mm lens after you factor in the 1.6x crop factor of the Canon sensor so wide angle shots are effectively ruled out without that questionable Zeikos converter.

I won't vote, though clearly out of the two choices you present I'd avoid the Canon. I'd say try and get down to a store and compare the feel of the D90 and the T2i once you've read the reviews. Ignore the sales patter and decide which feels more comfortable in hand. This is a big decision as once you commit to a manufacturer and you build up a lens collection over time you are unlikely to be able to afford to switch to another manufacturer later on. My gut feeling is that whichever manufacturer you select you are better off with a smaller collection of quality components than with a large jumble of other stuff.

Oh, and the reason the T2i is good value at the moment is that there's an Canon instant rebate offer on in the USA which ends on January the 8th. If you check the PDF rebate description the T2i + the 18-55mm + the 55-250mm lenses, when sold together as a kit, should qualify for a $250 savings. So, from Adorama, another of our affiliate stores, you can get the whole bundle for $950.

Bob.

_________________
OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Hi Special,

great to see a "Newfie" on board

Given the two choices, I'd unreservedly suggested the D90. Everything in the Canon-package there, except the body, is "fluff"...low-quality crap that will frustrate you in very little time.

Lenses/glass (more than your camera body) has the highest technical impact on image-quality.

One of the absolute most common impulses as a first-time owner of a DSLR is to try and cover everything because you don't yet know what your style is. It's perfectly natural to want to have what seems like the most versatile set of equipment - and unfortunately it tends to slow down the learning curve significantly.

Grab the D90 and the indomitable 35mm AF-S F1.8 Nikon prime lens, or the equally great 50mm F1.8 AF-D and learn to compose with your feet. Both lenses are very sharp, can render beautiful out-of-focus blur and are very light-sensitive..and as a bonus" they are dirt-cheap as far as lenses go: $230 or $120 CDN respectively.

With a kit like that you can focus on the most important part of photography: "seeing"

Cheers and good luck with your choices

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Nikon stuff and other stuff, but not nearly as much stuff as I really want!

Hi Special,

Thanks to LahLahSr's post I've just woken up to the fact that you are in Canada and not the USA. While the logic of my post stands maybe the numbers don't stack up (Canadian dollars instead of American dollars) and you'd have to look very carefully at whether you can purchase with an equivalent rebate to that available in the USA.

Bob.

_________________
OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

The 18-105 kit lens is -to be fair- a good lens. It's sharper and will you fit better than the other lenses of the Canon. Thereby, the D90 has some quite neat features the 450D is lacking, like video, 6400 ISO (450D has 1600 max), fast continuous burst mode (4,5fps vs 3,5) and so on. At launch the D90 was much more expensive than the 450D though, like the 550D and the D7000 now.
To go to the 550D: It has quite some more neat features the D90 is lacking , but after all the D90 is bigger and sturdier. Its continuous shooting is faster still, with 4,5 vs 3,7 and a Top LCD which could be very handy if youre shooting in sunlight.

Cheers, feel free to ask anything

_________________
Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

Wow, great replies so far! I've read/watched and reread/rewatched Gordon's reviews of both these cameras a few times. I was always more inclined towards the D90 (especially for the video option) more than the 450D. I think I simply fell victim to what LahLahSr described - some version of an over-enthusiastic newbie state.

Both of these cameras are through privates sales. The Nikon is in NL where I am attending school. I'm home now and will be until Jan 4th. Hopefully I can convince him to hold it for me until then. I feel much more confident in my decision - thank you all so much!

ETA:
Thank you for the warm welcome!

Welcome indeed. Between those two, I'd have to throw my choice behind the Nikon as well. Really, those two are in quite different classes - the D90 was a semi-pro, with a better build, nice upgraded controls, weatherproofed sealed body, and significantly better high ISO performance and continuous frame rate. Unless the D90 was completely torn up from the previous user, the D90 would be an easy pick for me. And the D90 solves the one issue I have with some Nikons, in that it has the in-body lens motor, as I love hunting for older lenses and would want that ability if I were to have gone with Canon or Nikon.

The 'lenses' listed with the Canon I would likely never use - all of those converters just don't really give off DSLR quality images that you come to expect.

_________________
Justin Miller
Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 200-500mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony NEX5N / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / Pentax K adapter / Konica K/AR adapter / bunches o' Konica & Pentax lenses!

Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

With NL you mean Holland? Netherlands?

_________________
Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

It is at mid level and didnt have full weatherproofing or sealed body. The D300s does have it (which is semi-pro, D90 is in the consumer range of Nikon)

_________________
- Wout -
Nikon D80 with 18-70 DX, 70-300 VR, 35 1.8 DX
Manfrotto 055XPROB tripod with 488RC0 midi ballhead
Lowepro CompuRover AW and Nova 200 AW

True...not full weathersealing...but it is partially sealed, yes? I had thought it was. I'd still consider it as a step-up midlevel model vs the 450D as an entry-level model.

_________________
Justin Miller
Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 200-500mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony NEX5N / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / Pentax K adapter / Konica K/AR adapter / bunches o' Konica & Pentax lenses!

Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg