Camera Labs

Hello,
I've been lurking for a while searching for information, so my first post with a question ...my daughter starts university soon ( Digital Photography course) and I want to get her a DSLR, to date she's been making do with a Canon powershot A720 IS , its been a fair camera with auto and manual features, so I feel a good base camera to move forward from.
My plan or rather my budget is £500 and the two on the short list are Canon EOS 500D or Nikon D5000 and of those two choices we've pretty well decided on the Nikon on price ,as its very well matched on spec to the Eos 500D.
So the next step of finding one on line has come up with a few unanswered questions, Priceru**er list the Nikon from various high St and Internet sites, my problem is this VR on the lens description, the Arg*s cameras is a none VR lens, as are some of the other sellers, the description is "18-55mm VR lens kit " or "18-55mm Nikkor zoom lens", am I worrying about nothing or is one rated as better than the other, hope you guys can advise, please don't shot me down if i'm talking rubbish
Bob

Pictures speak louder than words..VR ..II ?

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Welcome to the CL forums, Bob.

Re Nikon's kit lenses -- as you can see by the pic above, they sell the 18-55 in both a VR as well as non-VR version -- if you are going with the Nikon, I recommend that you are sure that you are getting the VR version -- it's worth the extra coin. The added performance at slower speeds is worth it.

Insofar as the D5000 and the 500D -- be aware that while the Nikon sports an articulated screen and has a better build quality, it is missing a couple of useful features which I would think will come in handy for a university level photography course. These include depth of field preview and auto-bracketing. The other thing on the Nikon is that you won't be able to use the older screw-driven AF lenses -- you would need to move up to the D90 for that.

Another thought would be to look at something used with a good lens -- if you can pick up, for example, a Nikon D80 or a Canon 40D with a good prime, you may well find yourself in the same price point with a better equipped camera body. Just a thought, ymmv.

_________________
Olympus e-620 / 14-42mm / 40-150mm
Metz 48 AF-1
Kata 3-N-1 20, LowePro Orion Mini, LowePro Nova 2
My Flickr

Many thanks for the welcome and wise words....during the course of today we have now moved back to wanting the Canon 500D , I take onboard your thoughts about 2nd hand but I'm unsure who to use in the UK that sells reliable used equipment.

For someone who will likely want to get more advanced in their photography skills, I do believe that the Canon would be a better camera. Don't get me wrong -- I s the Nikon is a great camrea - it's just that I think the Canon feature-wise might be better suited for your daughter's specific situation.

I'd be looking at prices on a fast prime as well as the kit lens -- the prime would make a dandy christmas gift -- as would a decent flash. Get ready for acquisition syndrome -- it's sure to hit when she starts to use her camera more and more.

Do let us know how it goes.

One word of advice -- don't load all the canon software right away - Picassa will give you everything you need for beginning editing with RAW, etc.

_________________
Olympus e-620 / 14-42mm / 40-150mm
Metz 48 AF-1
Kata 3-N-1 20, LowePro Orion Mini, LowePro Nova 2
My Flickr

Hey Bob, and welcome to the forums!

If I could recommend a camera, it would be the Nikon. Personally, it's because I used to shoot Nikon film for many many years with great prime lenses. I've never owned a Canon DSLR, but I have used them and they are good. I've had a Canon P&S (Point and shoot) camera, and it's very nice.

One thing that I like about Canon is that they all have nice features, and the video is great on them. If the video is important, then a Canon is the choice.

A problem with Canon is that they change their lens format more often than Nikon, so later, she'll have to buy new lenses if she ever gets a new camera body.

Nikon is good for speed, it has a faster frame rate than Canon. They have less megapixels, but are still very comparable. The Nikons are very good cameras. I prefer them because I like the feel of the bodies better, but that's a personal thing.

A problem with the Nikons is that they don't usually have as many features, and the video quality isn't as good.

Lens wise, VR is great. If you really want good lens quality for less though, get a second hand Nikkor prime. Perhaps it doesn't have VR or AF, but the quality is GREAT. They don't build lenses like that anymore!

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-Evan

Gear: 7 Nikon Nikkor AI-S and AF-S lenses, SB-700 flash, Nikon D7000, Nikon FM, variety of accessories

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs."
- Ansel Adams

I dont think Canon will change their system these days...

And about the quality: The cameras are roughly the same, Canon has 15MP but the Nikon could shoot at 4fps.
Weight their feauteres, and decide what's the best camera.

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

Really? They went from FD to EF. I really can't see Canon changing that now. Heck Ef has been around since 1987.
They did Ef-s f or crop frames, And the same thing I can't see that changing.
If the whole she'd have ot buy new lenses if she gets a new camera body, are you referring to trying to use a crop frame lens with a full frame body? If so you have the same issue with any BRAND that does full frame and crop frame sensor cameras.

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Check out: http://www.eagle1337.deviantart.com/
Camera: Canon Rebel T1i
Lens: Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm OS DC HSM f/2.8-4, ef-s 18-55mm IS, ef-s 55-250mm IS. EF 50mm F/1.8
Tripod: Giottos MTL9351B with a MH 5001 head.
Bag: lowepro Slingshot 202 AW. Cards: Sandisk Ultra 2, Lexar MicroSDHC.

As well as the tech specs make sure you get some time for your daughter to hold the cameras. You may find one feels more comfortable than another and if she will be using it all day every day during her course that makes a big difference.

I would also not rule out other manufacturers as they may have features (such as better weatherproofing) for similar prices.

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Nikon D90
Nikkor AF-S DX; 18-105 f/3.5-5.6G VR, 55-300 f/4.5-5.6G VR, 35mm f/1.8G
Speedlight SB-700

http://keystrokesukimages.com

All posts read and digested , Now my hunt for a good price on a UK Canon 500D has thrown up a potential problem that of grey imports, my homework on this is the camera is the same or very similar to UK spec but the warranty is not worth a carrot if its euro or USA spec, so its price over gamble of it going wrong.
One of the cheaper online sites is giving a 5 year warranty but the quality of cover drops year by year.
Looks like Jess*ps (£519.00 ) or Amaz*n (£505.00 ) are my best bet for price over UK warranty.
last thought of the day, do new cameras by good manufacturers generally give trouble or is it down to misuse ?

No...not likely to have any issues with new cameras from the major manufacturers - Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus. They're all well built and reliable, and it's either user-abuse or a lemon in the batch that could happen to any. I wouldn't worry about brand for that.

What camera to pick should come down to feel and ergo - that's most important for someone starting out. The ergonomics are so different between some of the manufacturers that in some cases I can't see someone who likes one being able to be happy with the others - Canon's smaller grips, Nikon's deeper grips, Sony's deep grips and wider body, Pentax's small body and medium grip, or Oly's wide body with almost no grip - all very different design approaches that may work well for a person or not.

You'll do just fine between Nikon or Canon...though I'd always personally recommend keeping your mind open to other manufacturers as well as there just may be the perfect camera for her out there wearing a different brand name. And lens-wise, any brand will likely be fine, with hundreds of lenses available for even the smallest-selling mount...and nearly every manufacturer capable of using lenses from their history over the past 20 years or so. Some perks, like mirrorless compact designs, excellent live view systems, in-body stabilization, etc are found in those 'other' brands, so don't necessarily rule them out too quickly, at least if you want to shop the widest selection to make sure you get the best camera to suit her.

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Justin Miller
Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 200-500mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony NEX5N / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / Pentax K adapter / Konica K/AR adapter / bunches o' Konica & Pentax lenses!

Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

I had presumed that you have already done the hands-on with these cameras already. If not -- like other posters encourage -- get them in your hands. But -- do it in a proper camera shop -- not at a box store where the cameras are tethered down -- you can never get a proper sense of the feel of a camera with that big honking lug on the bottom of it and the cable that prevents you from getting it up to your face properly.

Insofar as grey market is concerned -- I would steer away from it entirely. Warranty issues, returns problems are are symptoms that you will face with grey market goods. Buy from a reputable camera seller if you can -- you will find that most have more flexibility than a box vendor -- you might even get some stuff thrown in -- or a better package price with some accessories.

While we have discussed the camera and a bit about lenses - don't forget that you need to include in your budget a good camera bag - one that she can grow into a bit, a couple of memory cards, and a few other odds and ends -- like a polarizing filter, mono or tripod for slow shutter speed shooting (even good low-light performance doesn't counter a good shot from a tripod). You also may want to look at a flash diffuser for the on-camera flash - I have a Gary Fong puffer - and it's really good - and very portable. Although it doesn't come close to the performance of a proper flash and diffuser - it does get rid of a lot of harsh light from the flash.

Lots to be thinking about.

_________________
Olympus e-620 / 14-42mm / 40-150mm
Metz 48 AF-1
Kata 3-N-1 20, LowePro Orion Mini, LowePro Nova 2
My Flickr

I have a bag with a much older Canon , its a eos 300 pre digital age, so she can have the bag, flash and brush kit... that brings me onto another question , will a flash from the pre digital age fit a younger camera, or are flashes that fits a hot shoes all the same fitting.

NOOOOO, NEVER FIT AN OLD FLASH ON A NEW DSLR!!!

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

There are some very good 3rd party digital flashes available -- you don't have to go with the generally more expensive native flashes from Canon or Nikon. My Metz is an outstanding performer - and was a fraction of the price of the comparable Oly flash. Whatever you do, make sure you get something with full bounce potential.

_________________
Olympus e-620 / 14-42mm / 40-150mm
Metz 48 AF-1
Kata 3-N-1 20, LowePro Orion Mini, LowePro Nova 2
My Flickr