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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:54 pm 
I know the 50D is heavy - but it will be the most camera for the buck until they sell out and are fully sunset in favour of the 60D.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:37 pm 
Kimchi - Does the amount that can be spent come into the equation?

They might also look at Pentax - the K-X, might be some good deals on that, with the new K-R about to hit the shops. The K-X has good low-light / high ISO functions. (The K-R might be even better.)

Then, with that - the "std" kit lenses are the Pentax 18-55mm and the Pentax 50-200mm. That gives a new user a std and a midrange walk-around lenses, if not high-quality, at least better than any P&S devices they might have been using.

For very little more, the Pentax 18-55mm can be replaced with the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC, which gets good reviews for a modestly priced lens, which is also semi-macro.

In some regions, the Pentax L (unlike Canon, means basic model) - 55-300mm, is bundled as a kit lens. Along with either the Pentax 18-55mm or the Sigma 17-70mm - that covers the 17-18mm to 300mm range - and any money over could be put into a midrange or macro lens.

In regions (like Australia) where the Pentax L 55-300mm kit offer isn't available, the Sigma 70-300mm DG APO - under $300.00 in Australia, might be an affordable option to the rather better Pentax ED 55-300mm, which is around $700.00, here.

If money is an issue, the user then has a wide range of Film-SLR K-mount era lenses to choose from - some undesirable, and others very good.

Regards, Dave.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:07 am 
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Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, Bob mentioned about EVIL cameras which I've never really considered.

I've had a quick look and you can get a Panasonic GF1 with 20mm 1.7 lens, 9-18mm, and 45-200mm IS lens for around the same price as the regular DSLR systems in my original post - but at around half the weight !

I'll have to see if my buddy can feel comfortable with P&S ergonomics though.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:07 pm 
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EVIL is always a good choice, perhaps a Sony NEX-5? It has the mag alloy body, and some of the Carl Zeiss lenses, those are nice. It doesn't have a viewfinder though. Gorden reviewed it a month back or so. Although, Sony glass (Along with Olympus, Pentax, Sigma, Tameron etc...) has never been able to match up to the Nikons or Canons. If you REALLY have a lot of money to spend, get Leica. Best cameras and glass, but you'll be spending $20 000 at LEAST to get some really nice lenses and a great body.

Don't look at cameras like the K-X or D3000 if build is very important. Those are plastic, ready to shatter as they hit the floor. :wink:

Also, take a look at some second hand high-end cameras from Canon or Nikon. You can usually get them for a steal, and they all have things like the mag-alloy body. Even Nikon's new D7000 has a partial mag alloy body!

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Last edited by EvanK on Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Evan, you're irritating me a bit by your reply:
Why should Sony Olympus etc. not have good glass? Zuiko, Zeiss, what's wrong with those? And do you really think a camera will shatter if it reaches the ground after a fall? Check this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tTBncIsm8
2 entry level dSLRs.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Sorry I'm irritating you! :(

I'm not saying that the 3rd party lenses or Pentax and Olympus make bad lenses, I just prefer the quality of the Canon or Nikon ones. I know somebody who shoots with Pentax, and they get some pretty good images. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, the Pentax, Olympus or 3rd party don't usually come out on top. Parhaps a higher quality Sigma would be better than a Canon a notch below, but overall, they aren't as good.

Build quality wise, that Nikon D70 in the video wasn't too fond of water. Maybe my:

Quote:
Those are plastic, ready to shatter as they hit the floor.


was over reacting a bit, but if you want the best quality, entry level won't be the best. I was just trying to say that plastic isn't as good as mag alloy quality wise.

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Gear: 7 Nikon Nikkor AI-S and AF-S lenses, SB-700 flash, Nikon D7000, Nikon FM, variety of accessories

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs."
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:27 pm 
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EvanK wrote:
Although, Sony glass (Along with Olympus, Pentax, Sigma, Tameron etc...) has never been able to match up to the Nikons or Canons.

(*Sic*)
I highly doubt that. Does this: 'Sony Carl Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 SSM' and 70-400G SSM ring a bell by any chance :twisted: :wink: ? These are two class-leading lenses and certainly on par if not better than the competition. Sony may not yet offer every lens Canon and Nikon have, but they are certainly working hard to catch up and have produced some outstanding lenses so far, including the Sony Carl Zeiss 85mm f/1.4 and 135mm f/1.8, 16-35 f/2.8 Carl Zeiss,...

By the way, even the highly acclaimed Canon 24-105L f/4 IS USM suffers considerably from distortion on full-frame. Nikon's superb 24-70 f/2.8 suffers from field curvature too. So neither Canon nor Nikon should be considered as the best, just because it's Canon or Nikon :roll:.

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Last edited by Joris Van den Berghe on Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:33 pm 
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@ Joris, that's I meant.
Canon and Nikon are not perfect, they're only sold a lot.

BTW, Ive got a Cosina lens, 135mm F/2,8 and @2,8 it is very soft. But on F/4 (even with the Minolta MD-Eos adapter with glass!) it delivers the best results of all my lenses. Amazingly.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:19 pm 
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I have used one Sigma before, but I could see the difference with sharpness between it and a Nikkor prime. Then again, Nikkor primes are very nice.
I'm going to buy my first DSLR soon, and sell my film SLR cameras. I think that I'll keep all the lenses except my 500mm.

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Gear: 7 Nikon Nikkor AI-S and AF-S lenses, SB-700 flash, Nikon D7000, Nikon FM, variety of accessories

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs."
- Ansel Adams


Last edited by EvanK on Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Whenever ppl mention hiking and nature photography I always ask how serious of a hiker are they... if you are talking about a few hour hike down a well marked nature trail on a weekend fine and dandy but if you are talking serious hiking in remote areas and/or overnight adventures in the wild I would without a doubt sacrifice some of the lightness and portability for a more durable body and lenses with some weather sealing if available.

I realise I am rougher on gear than most but that being said I think most would agree that lugging a camera into remote areas for extended day outings will result in some mishaps. Under these conditions the tougher the gear the better. Your camera will bang against trees, rocks and other objects, you will be out in light rain when a photo-op presents itself, you will want to put your camera down quickly at times and that might mean on wet areas, on snow, or other not so great areas... you get the idea.

Overnight outings create other issues such as condensation buildup during the night. Anyone who has spent a night in a tent can relate to this.

All of the above bring to mind the most important thing for me when it comes to successful wildlife photography... a proper bag/case/backpack for your gear when you are out hiking. Not only will it protect your gear under most conditions but it will also make your outing more comfortable and safe which hopefully makes for a more enjoyable outing.

For extended wildlife outings the extras come into play a lot more. Having the proper extras can mean getting the shot or missing it, or even coming back with your gear safe and sound. Even carrying a disposable shower cap that you get in hotel rooms if you dont have a weather cover for your camera just in case of a downpour can be the difference in getting the shot or not even pulling out the camera.

You can have the best gear in the world but if you are not comfortable pulling it out under any condition it doesnt do you much good.

Again, as mentioned above, if your hikes are short outings on well marked, safe trails then the vast magority of the time there is nothing to worry about but for more robust outings in any type of weather you may want to take some of the above into account.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:49 pm 
EvanK wrote:
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Although, Sony glass (Along with Olympus, Pentax, Sigma, Tameron etc...) has never been able to match up to the Nikons or Canons.

Oh really there's been quite a few times when they have beaten nikon and canon.... Your opinion is very very very biased.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:32 am 
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Evan, I'm not sure whether you're just posting your opinions or experience or whether you're regurgitating what you've been told. The Olympus system's strength lies firmly in the quality of their lenses, and I've also heard lots of positives about Carl Zeiss lenses for Sony.

I think you're just following the established Canikon dogma.

Wolfsong you make some good points. I've tried an Olympus E3 with a grip and high-grade glass in a thunderstorm. Yeah it all works like a charm but I wouldn't want to lug all that gear up a mountain. My buddy is retired, so light-weight is more important than heavy-duty. I don't think he'll be doing overnight hikes, but the hiking is pretty intense - needs ropes and stuff. The gear also needs to be a little less conspicuous for urban/street shots.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:53 am 
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I agree that Sony Carl Zeiss lenses are very good, but I do prefer the Canons, Nikons or Leicas. The 3rd party lenses are fine, but I still don't put them up top. I've had experience with all these lenses, compared them and I found that the Leica pics would always come out on top, followed by the Canons and Nikons, then by the Carl Zeiss Sony lenses and after that the Pentax lenses, and 3rd party lenses. I've never had much luck with my Olympus lenses, but that may be just me.

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Gear: 7 Nikon Nikkor AI-S and AF-S lenses, SB-700 flash, Nikon D7000, Nikon FM, variety of accessories

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs."
- Ansel Adams


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:01 am 
I think EvanK is clearly showing his age...ha ha


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:25 am 
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He doesnt get it, I think :wink:
Of course Leica or Canon-L glass is better than the Olympus kit lens made by...(dont know to be fair).

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