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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:46 pm 
Lately I've been thinking about getting a new DSLR as my mighty 1000D is becoming restrictive more and more as I keep shooting.

Maybe I'm being too picky but I can clearly see noise at ISO 200 while shooting the sky.

I could understand in low light situations but not while shooting something as bright as a mid day sky! (yes I know it's not the best time for shooting)

Also I shoot mostly with manual focus primes so I'd love to have a better and bigger viewfinder.

Basically I'd like a camera that handles noise more efficiently as I also like to shoot in low lights situations.

After reading reviews and users opinions I'm pointing towards the 7D, I like how the Nikon CLS works but the 7D has something similar now.

I'd also like a full frame camera but they are more expensive.

I could get a 7D (body only) + a 430X II and a good CF card for 1600€ or I could get a 5D MkII or D700 for a bit less than 2000€ (body only + a CF card).

Those are a bit out of budget I'd get one only if they're really much better than the 7D. (or any alternatives if you think something else is better like maybe the D300s)

I wouldn't mind switching to Nikon, I like how they work but I find that everything is more expensive, especially decent lenses.

Also both the 5D and the D700 might get a replacement relatively soon so it might be worth getting another camera for now and then at the next camera upgrade getting one of the new FF camera.

By the way I like to shoot landscapes, portraits, macro, low light and also some action stuff so I'm a bit of an all rounder.

I hope I didn't make a fool of myself with all this blabbing.

Can't wait to know what you guys/girls think.

P.S. movie mode is also something I wont mind but photos come first.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:52 pm
Posts: 2173
Location: The Netherlands
Uhm, are you a starter with DSLR photography?
So yes, first learn all the things on the 1000d before you move on to a pro camera. You really only will get less noise if you go to the 7D, not better quality as you use the auto settings.
If you want less noise, go for a brighter high quality lens, then you will get better images than when you fit the 7D with a cheap lens.
Id say: No go. But, maybe the D90 is nice, however, the D90 isnt a beginner DSLR too.

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:20 pm 
Quote:
Uhm, are you a starter with DSLR photography?
So yes, first learn all the things on the 1000d before you move on to a pro camera. You really only will get less noise if you go to the 7D, not better quality as you use the auto settings.
If you want less noise, go for a brighter high quality lens, then you will get better images than when you fit the 7D with a cheap lens.
Id say: No go. But, maybe the D90 is nice, however, the D90 isnt a beginner DSLR too.


What made you think I'm a starter?
Also I never use auto, I don't even use auto focus lenses as I said in my post.
BTW I've some bright (and also quite sharp) lenses if you check my sig.
Glass doesn't age, just because they're vintage lenses doesn't mean they are any less good than the newer models except for the lack of auto focus or stabilization.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 12:48 pm
Posts: 8022
Location: UK
While the 7D helps with noise at high ISO, there is still some noise at low ISO. If you need a bit more cleanness then have you tried noise reduction software?

On which camera, have you considered a used 5D mk1? You get the full frame sensor and viewfinder, for much less than a new 7D. Of course you don't get a lot of the new functions, but if you're mostly manual I guess you wont miss them.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:48 pm 
Yes I have considered the first 5D but for the price difference that there is I'd prefer the newer camera mostly because of the bigger resolution, which doesn't matter normally but in stock photography it's a nice bonus as the people who buy the photos usually want the biggest res possible.

The video function is also a nice addition.

I just used Lightroom but most softwares I'm afraid will soften the images a little while reducing noise so a bigger resolution might help keeping more detail.

All of this would be kinda useless if I just wanted to take some random pictures
but professionally speaking (especially in stock photography) the less noise there is the better otherwise the images won't even be accepted.

Stock photography reviewers are unfortunately a bunch of pixel peepers. :P

EDIT: I forgot to mention the wireless flash is something I'd really like to have. No need for pocket wizards or extension cords.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:44 pm 
High MP counts make preaty pictures but as far as I understand they aren't very good with noise (big MP per cm2 count or something like that) unless they are FF.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:09 pm 
Yes an higher pixel density should be worse than a lower density as far a noise goes but I think Canon did a good job keeping up with Nikon smaller sensor in terms of keeping the noise down.
At least that's the impression I got from various reviews.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:52 pm
Posts: 2173
Location: The Netherlands
I asked if you were starter :wink:
Id upgrade to the Nikon D90. The lenses you have are used with an adapter, right?

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Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:40 pm 
Btw may I ask you why you're only using ancient lenses?
(im just curius :D)


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:23 pm 
I love my primes especially the 58 and the 135 are pretty sharp.

They just work and I had them laying around. :D

I might get some good zoom lenses in the future but for now I prefer (and enjoy) shooting with primes, manual focus and manual settings.

I like having everything under control and after a while manual focus get's fast enough to keep up with almost anything.

Yet I love all the tech gimmicks and geeky stuff they add to the new cameras but I just like shooting the old way. :wink:


Last edited by The Dark Shadow on Sun May 23, 2010 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:38 am
Posts: 357
The Dark Shadow wrote:
Lately I've been thinking about getting a new DSLR as my mighty 1000D is becoming restrictive more and more as I keep shooting.

Maybe I'm being too picky but I can clearly see noise at ISO 200 while shooting the sky.

I could understand in low light situations but not while shooting something as bright as a mid day sky! (yes I know it's not the best time for shooting)



Like what was suggested have you applied Noise Reduction? Especially the new noise reduction algorithm in Lightroom 3.

Also, a 7D will not be noise free at ISO200.

Have you thought about shooting in RAW and creating an optimized processing workflow to combat noise?

When you shoot, are you exposing such that your histogram is pushing the highlights almost to clipping? This gives added headroom and less noise.

From available cameras the Nikon D700 or Nikon D3s would give you better noise performance with less user intervention. However I think proper and optimized exposure technique followed up by noise reduction (if any needed) in post processing might be an area to look at before upgrading your DSLR.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:35 pm 
Quote:
Like what was suggested have you applied Noise Reduction?

Also, a 7D will not be noise free at ISO200.

Have you thought about shooting in RAW and creating an optimized processing workflow to combat noise?

When you shoot, are you exposing such that your histogram is pushing the highlights almost to clipping? This gives added headroom and less noise.

From available cameras the Nikon D700 or Nikon D3s would give you better noise performance with less user intervention. However I think proper and optimized exposure technique followed up by noise reduction (if any needed) in post processing might be an area to look at before upgrading your DSLR.


I do shoot in raw and the shoot was properly exposed right out of the camera.

I removed pretty much all the noise in Lightroom but it all got soft, sharpening helped getting it back but the final image is not really acceptable IMHO.

Look I worked with photoshop and similar programs since 1997 (yes I was a kid when I started) it's not like I'm new at doing this stuff but the images that came out of the 1000D aren't really that good to be sold as stock, I'm looking for a camera that gives me clearer images.

Also the higher res is more than welcome for stock photos. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:38 am
Posts: 357
In Lightroom 3, the noise reduction is more advanced than lightroom 2 as there are additional sliders for detail and contrast which vastly improves the degree of noise reduction while simultaneously holding detail. Download the beta and see for yourself as you are unsatisfied with your current version of lightroom.

If you care about noise and megapixels then I think it makes sense to get the 5DMII


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 Post subject: NOT MUCH HELP
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:49 am 
Hi TDS, If it helps I chose my camera buy looking at the specs of the leading brands in my price range (Canon 7D & the Nikon D300s) on paper the 7D comes out really well but the D300s wasn't far behind with its lesser spec. I then went to different camera shops and spoke to the sales people while being shown demonstrations of the 2 camera's, 65% of the sales people all had Canons and the gave me their reasons (Brand loyalty + stack load of lenses) but out of the 45% of Nikon owners 2 of them switched (from the Dark side) sorry switched from Canon to Nikon.!
I prefered the feel of the the NIKON to the CANON while they showed me the 2 camera's and the pictures in the shop just looked better to me coming out of the NIKON kit. But I'm only 3½ yr old when it comes to D SLR Photography, so I wouldn't listern to me!
As your already using Canon why don't you stick to your product branding instead of having to start all over.
ps. the NIKON CLS is awesome. Most reviews rate the Nikon CLS system over the Canon system. I've just been using mine for about 10hrs and I already want to buy more flashes!
Good luck in your disccission, chose wisely......!


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:24 am 
At this point switching won't make much difference as the only lens with a Canon mount I have is the 18-55 kit lens (which I stopped using a while ago) all the other lenses are used with an adapter.

I've seen lots of videos of Nikon cameras at work and I would pretty much know how to use it already as far as menus and buttons go.

I find it hard to decide tho...

If I had to go for the APS-C cameras the 7D is what I would probably get as it has the best of both worlds, fast fps (without battery grip too), good noise, wireless flash system and also a very good video mode.

For a full frame I'd probably get the Nikon D700 because of the ISO, Nikon CLS (the 5Dmk2 needs a wireless transmitter), 8fps, Nikon lens mount so I could get any used old Nikon lens and be able to use it right away.

I'll see what can I come up with budget wise and then I'll go try them at some shop to see which I like the most.

I'd love to rent them but we don't have anything like that here in Italy...

Anyways thanks for all the answers I appreciate the help!


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