Camera Labs

Hello everybody.
I'm going to college, second year now, multimedia course and a friend of mine just entered the first year.
In our course we have to get a reflex digital camera right in the first semestre because the teachers are idiots that prefer costy reflexes againsts manual-options compacts.
Now ending the rant.
My friend (unlike me) lacks the long term capability to "save money" and as such can't afford a camera over 700€. So he is standed between two options:
- Either get a Canon 350D + 18-55mm lenses - 530€;
- Or a Nikon D40 + 18-55mm - 515€.

We are also required to get an telephoto lens... and since I bought the "big pack" of canon 400d (body+18-55+55-200+grip) I can lend her my lens.

I can lend her my lens but she shouldn't be "stranded" to my help.
And I wanted to know what would be the best camera, because frankly I don't know which camera is cheapest to upgrade with a telephoto zoom lens.

PS: I understand anything as telephoto zoom lens as anything bigger than 70mm, maybe my technical specs are awry.

PPS: It also ocured to me the "crop effect"... should I bring that to the teacher that demands such things?

Thanks for any feedback.

I currently own a Canon EOS 350D, and the 18-55mm lens along with a Kodak (yes its strange lol) 80-210mm lens + Grip.

I picked this over the Nikon D40 or D40x due to the fact it has quicker access to the manual controls which I change constantly.

As to sharing lenses...well, she can only do that if she buys the Canon 350D, as Nikon and Canon mounts are totally different.

I personally, since I have experience with it, recommend the 350D as it is a damn good camaera, you can share you lenses, flashguns, etc. and it has a higher resolution sensor, plus the noise levels arn't that bad.

_________________
Canon EOS 5DmkII + BG-E6 + Canon EOS 40D + BG-E2N + Canon EOS 33
Canon 17-40 F/4L USM + Canon 24-70 F/2.8L USM + Canon 28mm F/1.8 USM + Canon 70-200 F/2.8L USM IS + Canon 85mm F/1.8 USM
Canon Speedlite 580EX II + Canon Speedlite 540EZ + 2 x Nikon SB-80DX
Cactus V2s Wireless Trigger - 5 x Cactus V2s Wireless Reciever

MY FLICKR!

Well thanks for the feedback. (also thanks the mods for chaging the topic's location).
I read in some magazines that Nikon D40 couldn't be used past iso400...
Which to work in our coruse it isn't all bad (we are oblidged to use iso100) but for "fun pictures" it's not that good...

But still... I'm worried because I don't know which is the best deal... mainly (as I said before) in terms of buying new lenses...

The Nikon D40 starts at ISO 200, so you'd be out of luck if you are expected to use ISO 100.

ISO 800 and ISO 1600 show a certain degree of noise - of course they do, it's an entry level camera - but they're usable.

It's true that, while the Canon 350 has easy access to some settings, you have to click a few buttons to do the same thing on the D40.

If you want to see some outstanding real life (as opposed to promotional) photos taken with Nikon D40, check out Nathan's Flickr page.

You can also see my own photos, but those are more like average.

_________________
Nikon D90 + MB-D80 + SB-600 + AF-S VR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 + AF-S 35mm f/1.8 + AF 85mm f/1.8 | My photos on Flickr.

Yep, Nathan has outstanding photos using the D40, and shows just what a good camera it is.

I wasn't saying the D40 is bad, its a good entry level camera, and if used in the right way (like Nathan) can be used to create outstanding photographs, but in your situation, ISO100 use and changing lenses with each other, along with flashguns perhaps, then the 350D is the better deal.

The Nikon D40 has an ISO range of 200-1600, anything above 400, noise starts to become pretty noticeable, but still useable; this is the downside of all APS-C sized sensors, but some cameras handle noise better than others, e.g. The Nikon D80 handles ISO 800 and 1600 better than the D40.

As for prices, I still think the extra €15 is worth it for the 350D.

In terms of buying new lenses, Nikon has the great 18-200VR, Canon has the 17-85IS and 70-300IS for higher end lenses. The VR is Vibration Reduction, thats Nikons term, and Canon use IS for Image Stabalisation, both basically do the same thing, just a different name, they help reduce camera shake. Plus you can share lenses!

_________________
Canon EOS 5DmkII + BG-E6 + Canon EOS 40D + BG-E2N + Canon EOS 33
Canon 17-40 F/4L USM + Canon 24-70 F/2.8L USM + Canon 28mm F/1.8 USM + Canon 70-200 F/2.8L USM IS + Canon 85mm F/1.8 USM
Canon Speedlite 580EX II + Canon Speedlite 540EZ + 2 x Nikon SB-80DX
Cactus V2s Wireless Trigger - 5 x Cactus V2s Wireless Reciever

MY FLICKR!

Oh! Ok. I forgot to say... Telephoto budget lenses.

Also, a bit off-topic:
Generally speaking... which handles better the noise levels... Nikon or Canon?

Hi Netbreak, noise levels are roughly similar on both cameras, so I wouldnt buy one over the other based on this. Instead go on look, feel, price, features - and as Daniel points, out, accessibility to lenses and accessories.

To see their noise levels in real life examples though, check the Noise 2 Results and Gallery pages in our reviews of each camera...

EG: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon ... e4ca.shtml

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon ... e4ca.shtml

Gordon

Again... maybe I wasn't clear enough (I don't mean to be sarcastic).
My main problem is I don't know which has the best "price to quality" ratio, canon or nikon.
Remeber... she can't spend much...

To put it bluntly - Canon EOS 350D with 18-55mm F/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens has the best "price to quality" ratio.

_________________
Canon EOS 5DmkII + BG-E6 + Canon EOS 40D + BG-E2N + Canon EOS 33
Canon 17-40 F/4L USM + Canon 24-70 F/2.8L USM + Canon 28mm F/1.8 USM + Canon 70-200 F/2.8L USM IS + Canon 85mm F/1.8 USM
Canon Speedlite 580EX II + Canon Speedlite 540EZ + 2 x Nikon SB-80DX
Cactus V2s Wireless Trigger - 5 x Cactus V2s Wireless Reciever

MY FLICKR!

Hi netbreak,

It's a really tight budget but it should be doable provided expectations don't run too high. I doubt you will find anybody other than Gordon on this site (prove me wrong someone, please) who has personal experience of both the D40 and 350D. As I think you know, Gordon reviewed the 350D here and the D40 here. I also suggest that you use the forum's Search facility searching for posts including D40 and for posts including 350D. It will take some effort to discover posts relevant to your question but you may be able to discover strengths and weaknesses even though the value for money question won't be directly answered.

Which zoom lens to choose? I have no experience of any of the lenses within your budget but I have had a look on a some of my favourite review sites. As others have pointed out, if you can share your own zoom lens for a while that eases the short term problem. It means your friend has to choose the 350D of course, but if there is any chance that your friend may be able to do a little moonlighting to earn a little extra towards that zoom then it would be a shame to cut out that option by choosing the D40 even if (as it probably is) it is roughly the same value for money as the 350D.

Assuming that a zoom has to be purchased within that €170 budget then have a look at the Tamron 70-300mm f/4-5.6 Di LD Macro 1:2 AF. It is reviewed here on a Canon 20D at SLRGear and here on a Pentax at Photozone. This lens is available for both Nikon and Canon mounts. There are other possibilities out there (Canon, Nikkor, Tamron and Sigma) so I am not suggesting that the Tamron is your only option. Both SLRGear and Photozone carry reviews of the Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 USM II and Nikkor AF-S 55-200mm f/4-5.6 G ED DX.

One issue you need to watch if considering the Nikon D40 is that the body doesn't have the auto-focus motor that some lenses without their own internal motor require. This shouldn't be a deal breaker but you do need to be aware of this. The EOS 350D doesn't have this problem as AF lenses for Canon cameras have their own motors built in.

Finally, most forum members would recommend that your friend actually holds both cameras in the store if at all possible. There is no point in choosing a camera which doesn't feel right and the D40 and 350D are probably not so different in the value for money stakes that this step should be ignored.

Bob.

_________________
OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Thanks for the feedback.
I'll try to find a store so tha tshe can hold them both...