Camera Labs

I am in a bit of a quandary about what to do re upgrading my camera and would value your advice.

In short:
I shoot mainly with a 20D, and I shoot mainly wildlife. The 1.6 crop factor helps with that by extending the range of my lenses and I have a reasonable range of good quality Canon glass.

However, I have been moving to landscape and portrait photography a little more, and figured I should get a 5D as my next camera: apply all the benefits of its full frame and increased resolution to these types of photography and keep the 20D for the wildlife. My plan was to get the 5D replacement as I was sure it would be announced at this time of the year, including sensor cleaning among the upgraded camera's improvements.

However, Canon has announced the new 40D (which has some significant improvements over the 20D, albeit only marginally so in the resolution area) but no 5D...making an update of the latter unlikely for another year.

My thinking is:

1. Logically I should still get the 5D: but I hate getting something late in its cycle and I really wanted the automatic sensor cleaning facility.

2. I could get the 40D on the basis that it has features that will advantage the wildlife side of things and trust that its quality will be sufficient for the landscape photography etc.

3. Alternatively, I have recently been really enjoying shooting with a Digilux 3. Previously I must admit that I mocked the four-thirds system, but I love the D3 - and, to my eye, the images it captures have a special quality. So, my heart, if not my head, is telling me that instead of the 5D I should get the new Olympus E3 or whatever they call it. Would be good for wildlife with 2x crop factor, but I would need to get new glass (and top-end Olympus glass is expensive) when I already have a consider investment in Canon glass. Also - head kicking in here again - I am worried with what I see in the Olympus sensor (the same one used in the 410/510) in terms of dynamic range and clipping of the highlights, which makes me think that it could not match the 5D in that area.

That's it, then: 5D, 40D, or E3? My head says 5D, my heart says E3, and perhaps the most pragmatic solution says 40D.

Hello adelie, and welcome to the Camera Labs forum!
These are exciting times to plan for buying a new camera
Here's my opinion in your case:
- Wait for the successor of the Nikon D200 (no, just kidding )
- Buying gear with your heart? No, let your head guide you!
- You have a good investment in Canon glass? Go Canon!
- Is there a visible IQ-difference between four/thirds vs FF? You bet!
- Is the risk of blown highlights with landscape photography higher than with wildlife? Yes, unless you shoot birds against the sky!
- Is a 10mm on a croped sensor (equiv. 16mm on film-SLR) wide enough for your landscape ambitions? I guess so. But is certainly cannot beat a 12mm on a FF-body!
- Do you fear that the 5D will let you down on one aspect ore the other? Well, I don't know!
So you're left with three options:
- Buy the 40D, get a decent ultra-wide and be happy now
- Buy a 5D, get the Sigma 12-24 (it's FF) and be very happy
- Wait for the 5D successor, get the Sigma 12-24 afterwards, and be considered a "wise man". Whether you are happy to wait for so long, I don't know
I didn't mention the option for people with v.d.w. (very deep wallets): Wait for the already announced 1Ds mark III
---
In the end it all depends on how dissatisfied you are with your 20D.
Those, who can wait will be rewarded with better, cheaper, more mature gear
Hope that helps...

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Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses

Hi Adelie,

There has been some speculation on the net that Canon may announce the 5D replacement at PMA next Spring. The trouble is that with no hard information the dividing line between speculation and wishful thinking is incredibly blurred.

Don't get too hung up on the increased megapixel count of the 5D vs. the 40D. Moving from 10.1 to 12.8 isn't hugely significant. Where the 5D has scored up to now is in the lower sensor noise that its larger pixel size has allowed.

Here's a possible strategy as it shouldn't be too long before the 40D reviews come out. When they do, see what the reviewers have to say about sensor noise, particularly as compared to the 5D. If the 40D, with its newer technology sensor, is good enough for your needs then that may be a better option as the new Live View shutter mode and faster frames per second rate may be of real use in your wildlife work. Also, as you say, the cropped sensor allows your existing glass to get you "closer" to your subjects than a full frame sensor would.

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Hi Adelie, I'd add to what Thomas and Bob have recommended by saying it would seem sensible to stick with Canon if you have an existing and significant investment in Canon lenses.

There's certainly nothing wrong with them - and if you shoot at longer focal lengths for wildlife, I think you might find the lack of stabilisation through the viewfinder of Four Thirds cameras (unless you buy the Leica lens) quite annoying.

Presuming some or most of your lenses are EF models - and therefore compatible with full-frame - then sure thing, the 5D's big sensor will give you higher resolution than the 20D plus lower noise and greater dynamic range - although the trade-off is you WILL notice more vignetting and corner softness with full-frame than you do with your 20D (and other cropped bodies).

Canon will undoubtedly upgrade the 5D at some point, but as we've seen, its higher end models do not follow the same 18 month cycle as the 400D / XTi and 40D line - so we may be waiting a while, although as Bob says, the next big opportunity is PMA 2008. The 5D was launched two years ago now, which is a long time in the digital world, but it's still a very special camera - if you value the full-frame sensor and a big viewfinder anyway.

I wouldn't hold back just for sensor cleaning though. In my experience, none of the anti-dust systems are 100% effective, or come even close. The Olympus SSWF appears to be best of all, but that's more due to the relatively large distance between the sensor and filter rendering most dust particles beyond the focal plane. So manual cleaning will remain a regular occurence for DSLR users who swap their lenses...

You've said you want to do more landscapes, but perhaps more crucially you haven't told us in what areas you're finding your 20D is limiting. Is it just resolution? Or continuous shooting perhaps? Has dust become a big issue? Or do you want a physically tougher camera?

Let us know what you don't like about the 20D and your upgrade path will become clear!

Gordon

PS - upgrading from a cropped Canon DSLR to the 5D is quite an interesting route with various pros and cons, so we wrote an article all about it here:

http://www.cameralabs.com/features/Canon5D_upgrade/

In this article we specifically talked about upgrading from a 350D / XT to the 5D, but the results pages illustrate the resolution differences between an 8 mpixel cropped body and a 12 mpixel full-frame body. Also be sure to check the Noise 2 results page.

Firstly: thanks for the considered replies one and all.

What you say about sticking with Canon is very sensible and you have helped convince me of that.

As to the 5D or the 40D - that's a lot tougher. The thing is the 20D is not really lacking in much from my perspective except that for landscapes (especially) and portraits I think I would benefit from the increased resolution, dynamic range and lower noise that comes with the full frame 5D.

On the other hand I would really like the sensor cleaning facility of the 40D, and would no doubt welcome the better auto-focusing (frame rate is not really an issue for me).

I guess what I am after is something intangible; a tool that will work with me to see the world better. I get that with the D3 - although it has limitations re the viewfinder, focusing, resolution - but there is just something about using that camera that makes me want to take photographs and be more considered in my approach to photography. I recently went to an Andris Apse exhibition and was blown away by the quality of his work (which of course I don't pretend for a minute I can emulate), but also the emphasis he put on the quality of his lenses and gear. That's where I see the limitation that you speak of Gordon wrt the 20D - even were I Andris, I would run up against its limits. So really that is the part of me that looks to the 5D to bring an extra dimension to my photography. Whereas, my impression is the 40D is just a slightly better version of the 20D; my guess is that I would use it in a similar fashion to the 20D...just, one would hope, with a few more keepers.

But I like your advice Bob - and maybe I should wait until the 40D is reviewed before finally making the commitment one way or the other.

Thanks again for your time and input.

Just just one additional comment on the 5D though.
As I lstly went more into the cmparison of FF bodies (with the advent of the D3) I got the feeling that the 5D shows some of it's age. It's not the sensor/resolution though but some of the other features that may be helpful to concentrate on making pics and not on the gear.
As I'm not a Nikon user by myself I'll try to formulate that as neutral as possible and you've certainly already read Gordon's upgrade article on that topic.
Well, one thing is certain. The 5D is the cheapest avebuy to FF-photography since film(35mm)-cameras. Still >2000EU investment has to be considered carefully and for me the biggest question is:
How does the 5D compare to the latest APS-C offerings from Canon (40D) and Nikon (D300). This will be much clearer in due time and after that decisions can be made much easier!

_________________
Thomas (beware: Nikon-fanboy and moderator!) My Lens Reviews, My Pictures, My Photography Blog
D800+assorted lenses